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Dell's Software License Policy; Dude, you're getting screwed.
Cypherpunks (via Slashdot) ^ | 28 Aug 2003 | Ian Goldberg and Kat Hanna

Posted on 08/29/2003 5:24:08 PM PDT by Eala

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1 posted on 08/29/2003 5:24:09 PM PDT by Eala
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To: Eala
Would that we all had such little problems in life! No one is forcing anyone to purchase a Dell. If anyone has a big problem with the EULA agreements, they can always ship it back.
2 posted on 08/29/2003 5:27:45 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Cultural Jihad
Say Dude, you didn't bend far enough..........
3 posted on 08/29/2003 5:30:34 PM PDT by pointsal
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To: Eala
Dude...get a custom built computer from a local shop. Just ask them to use all brand-name hardware and supply you with all cd's of software they install. Yhey will be happy to do this, give you an equal or better price and you will know who you are dealing with. Local shops are the way to go. They appreciate the business and will be there if you have any questions/problems.

Trust me, this works the best.

4 posted on 08/29/2003 5:37:41 PM PDT by Khurkris (Ranger On...)
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To: Eala
Sounds like the old witch trials in centuries past. To prove you're not a demon, they tie you up and dunk you in a river. After a while, if you come up then you're a demon and burned at the stake. If you don't come up then you're deemed innocent, but unfortunately screwed.

You're a trooper, I don't know anyone who reads or cares about the fine print in licensing, because it's taken for granted that we get screwed.

5 posted on 08/29/2003 5:39:09 PM PDT by roadcat
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To: Cultural Jihad
Would that we all had such little problems in life! No one is forcing anyone to purchase a Dell. If anyone has a big problem with the EULA agreements, they can always ship it back.

My problem with Dell is not those agreements, because I am a crank. When I buy something, I absolutely own it, and am not interested in listening to any legal fantasies to the contrary. My property, My Laws.

No, the issue I have with Dell is their firewall-pounding spyware, SUPPORT.EXE, and I feel strongly enough about it to never buy another.

BTW, folks, this is my first post running LINUX!

One machine totally stripped of MS, six more to go.

6 posted on 08/29/2003 5:40:52 PM PDT by Gorzaloon (Contents may have settled during shipping, but this tagline contains the stated product weight.)
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To: roadcat
Did you ask if this help center was in India? Not that you would get an honest answer. I hear that call center employees in India watch US sitcoms so they can lie about it if the caller asks what city they are in or where are they from.
7 posted on 08/29/2003 5:42:35 PM PDT by RushingWater
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To: Eala
Dude,
I didn't have this problem with my 12" Aluminum skinned G4 Powerbook. (Apple for you'se not from NJ).

bill From Nutley
8 posted on 08/29/2003 5:45:17 PM PDT by njmaugbill
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To: Cultural Jihad
Agreed. And that's what they did. But IMHO any corporation presenting such a Catch-22 situation deserves the bad publicity.

My previous work laptop was a Dell and even though the driver support for Win2K (it came with Win98) was, well, mediocre, I liked it well enough. But sadly, the mega-corporation that recently bought my employer has upgraded all our machines with cheap Compaqs -- big (too big to use in airline steerage class) and heavy. The one I liked most was a Toshiba -- for its keyboard.

9 posted on 08/29/2003 5:46:49 PM PDT by Eala (Annoy PETA -- try the Atkins diet.)
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To: Eala
This took from around 3pm to around 8:30pm today. I'm just bewildered that Dell corporate policy is that users need to lie to use their new laptops, and to agree to legal agreements that it's completely impossible to have read. This is the next level above "click-through" licenses. Now, they figure no one reads the EULAs anyway, so why bother even providing a copy?

You wasted your time from around 3pm to around 8:30pm today.

You wouldn't be able to comprehend the hidden meaning of the agreement anyway. A roomful of Philadelphia lawyers would have a constitutional convention over its interpretation. The agreement is there for Dell's protection, not yours. They are bound by limits in the Uniform Commercial Code that gives you certain protections. Dell has to compete with other companies who claim to have better services. Why waste your time? The computer will be obsolete in three to four years anyways.

10 posted on 08/29/2003 5:48:14 PM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts
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To: Eala
A long time ago in business law class, I learned that no contract is enforceable if it is signed under duress. (Not that I'm a lawyer or anything.) I mean, every time I view a DVD I see a screen telling me all this stuff I can't do with my DVD. I just laugh. If I want to show the thing to a hall full of oil rig workers, I'll damned well do it!
11 posted on 08/29/2003 5:48:51 PM PDT by zook
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To: Eala
Send your tale to Michael Dell. Sometimes CEOs don't know this stuff is happening and they really care. I've gotten some dramatic results by going to the top.
12 posted on 08/29/2003 5:49:13 PM PDT by owl
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To: Eala
send it back. it's obvious that you don't want software so what the hell do you need a computer for?
13 posted on 08/29/2003 5:49:48 PM PDT by go star go
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To: Gorzaloon
BTW, folks, this is my first post running LINUX!

Congratulations! Which distro and version? My primary Internet machine has been a RedHat system of one version or another for, uh, well, years now... I hate the "one and only one desktop" that Windows forces on you.

14 posted on 08/29/2003 5:51:48 PM PDT by Eala (Annoy PETA -- try the Atkins diet.)
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To: Eala
If you don't like it, go to eBay. Look up seller dell_financial_services. Buy a refurbished computer with no software for a bargain price. Load it up with Linux or FreeBSD.
15 posted on 08/29/2003 5:52:33 PM PDT by proxy_user
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To: Eala
I went through something like that back around 1996 or so... I found a mail order company that had a money back guaranty on their systems, and they told me that it was compatible with the version of Unix that I wanted to run on it (I think it might have been Microport, but I can't remember off-hand). Anyway, when I ordered it, I told them that I did not want an OS installed on it, because I was going to be installing Unix, and I didn't want to pay for an OS that I wasn't going to use... I was told that I could NOT buy a system without an OS. That I would be charged for it, weather I used it or not (it was because of the "per CPU" licensing agreement that MS had back then, which was later determined to be illegal). So I relented, and it shipped with Windows 95. Of course, the first thing I did was wipe the system drive.

Anyway, after 4 days of trying to get Unix to work on the system, I finally had enough. I called them to get an RMA to ship it back. I was informed that I would get a refund, minus the original shipping charge, and minus the cost of the Windows OS!I explained that I had never used Windows, had never even booted the computer to Windows, that I had never opened the Windows software package that shipped with the system. I was told that it didn't matter. By starting the computer, I had agreed to the MS license agreement. I insisted that's not possible, if the agreement was never presented to me. The fact is that I booted to a Unix floppy disk, and wiped the system in order to install Unix before it had ever even attempted to boot to Windows. They told me it didn't matter, and I got the same story all the way up the food chain in management.

Well, to make a really long story even longer, I finally got American Express involved, and told them about what was happening, and I refused to pay for anything. They agreed that I was being treated unfairly, and really worked things out for me. While I was originally willing to pay the shipping costs both ways, thanks to AMEX, I got a full refund of the original shipping, as well as the Windows95.

Believe me, YOU aren't being screwed by those damn license agreements. Have you ever tried to read one? Jeez! For instance, when you install MS Windows 2000 Server, you have to hit the page down about 20 times, and it even lapses into French for our Canadian friends! And it's a good thing that they insist that they're only licensing the software to you to use, not selling it... By doing that, they can make the outrageous claims that pretty much say that it might work, and it might only do a little bit of what they say it's supposed to do, and that it's not their fault if it doesn't work and that you will never hold them responsible for anything... etc... If they were to try to "sell" a product like that, state AGs would be all over them for marketing and advertising violations.

Mark

16 posted on 08/29/2003 5:55:29 PM PDT by MarkL (Get something every day from the four basic food groups: canned, frozen, fast and takeout)
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To: Khurkris; njmaugbill; LoneRangerMassachusetts; owl; go star go
People, people, people! Please take a minute and look at the posting. I did not write this; this is not my experience; I simply posted it for your edification. If you have comments for the author, follow the link.
17 posted on 08/29/2003 5:59:12 PM PDT by Eala (Annoy PETA -- try the Atkins diet.)
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To: proxy_user
Please see #17.
18 posted on 08/29/2003 5:59:52 PM PDT by Eala (Annoy PETA -- try the Atkins diet.)
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To: njmaugbill
Dude, I didn't have this problem with my 12" Aluminum skinned G4 Powerbook. (Apple for you'se not from NJ).

I'm shocked to be saying this, but if I can get all the network monitoring and management apps I need to work on an i-Book or a Powerbook, I'll be switching... I made the mistake of getting a Dell Inspiron (not really a mistake, but I needed a DVD-ROM, and at the time Latitudes weren't available with them). The problem was that the OS is WinXP (WindowsME was the option... No official Dell support for Linux, Win2K or Win98), and it's just unstable as hell, and most of my network apps (like Sniffer) won't work under XP. So I had to use Partition Magic and do my best to get Win98 drivers to work, as well as getting Linux on it...

A buddy of mine picked up an i-Book 700, and I was astonished. The damn thing is every bit as fast as a 2GHz P-4! Maybe even faster.

So I may be going over to "the dark side."

Mark

19 posted on 08/29/2003 6:02:22 PM PDT by MarkL (Get something every day from the four basic food groups: canned, frozen, fast and takeout)
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To: Eala
Congratulations! Which distro and version? My primary Internet machine has been a RedHat system of one version or another for, uh, well, years now... I hate the "one and only one desktop" that Windows forces on you.

To the abyss with Windows. XP did me a favor in that it made me get off my tail and FINALLY try Linux. I got Red Hat 9. It came yesterday, I read the book at bedtime, and it _slid_ into the machine (An old spare P3/733). I carefully noted all my hardware and network settings and Ethernet MAc, etc..etc.. but it was TOTALLY not needed. Everything set itself up, configured my WAN connections, and the LAN as well.

All I did was feed it CDROMs and GLOAT!

And it has ***EVERYTHING***, Office suite, three different ways of accessing newsgroups, Mozilla, its own FTP, etc..etc...there is just nothing lef to buy or do.

Next comes my laptop, then the Dell, and eventually the whole house will be clean of bloated spyware.

!!!!ESCAPE FROM REDMOND!!!! Courtesy of a penguin...hahaha.

20 posted on 08/29/2003 6:04:25 PM PDT by Gorzaloon (Contents may have settled during shipping, but this tagline contains the stated product weight.)
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