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To: Jim Robinson
Jim Robinson wrote: Says who? If the order is unconstitutional, and many people believe it is, he has the moral right to continue fighting as forcefully as he possibly can. The federal government may step in and end it forcefully, but that does not make it right. And they may find they have the people to answer for it if they do.

The SCOTUS is the final arbiter of what is constitutional.

Furthermore, the US Constitutuin trumps state constitutions and state law.

Are you really advocating tinkering with Marbury vs Madison (which has been settled law since 1803) and the Establishment Clause of the Bill of Rights?

49 posted on 08/28/2003 2:22:28 PM PDT by quidnunc (Omnis Gaul delenda est)
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To: quidnunc
The people are the final arbiter.
52 posted on 08/28/2003 2:23:51 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Conservative by nature... Republican by spirit... Patriot by heart... AND... ANTI-Liberal by GOD!)
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To: quidnunc; Jim Robinson
The SCOTUS is the final arbiter of what is constitutional.

The people are the final arbiter.

From the same man that brought us the "separation of church and state"...


Thomas Jefferson to W. H. Torrance, June 11, 1815

The second question, whether the judges are invested with exclusive authority to decide on the constitutionality of a law, has been heretofore a subject of consideration with me in the exercise of official duties. Certainly there is not a word in the constitution which has given that power to them more than to the executive or legislative branches. Questions of property, of character and of crime being ascribed to the judges, through a definite course of legal proceeding, laws involving such questions belong, of course, to them; and as they decide on them ultimately and without appeal, they of course decide for themselves. The constitutional validity of the law or laws again prescribing executive action, and to be administered by that branch ultimately and without appeal, the executive must decide for themselves also, whether, under the constitution, they are valid or not. So also as to laws governing the proceedings of the legislature, that body must judge for itself the constitutionality of the law, and equally without appeal or control from its co-ordinate branches. And, in general, that branch which is to act ultimately, and without appeal, on any law, is the rightful expositor of the validity of the law, uncontrolled by the opinions of the other co-ordinate authorities. It may be said that contradictory decisions may arise in such case, and produce inconvenience. This is possible, and is a necessary failing in all human proceedings. Yet the prudence of the public functionaries, and authority of public opinion, will generally produce accommodation. Such an instance of difference occurred between the judges of England (in the time of Lord Holt) and the House of Commons, but the prudence of those bodies prevented inconvenience from it. So in the cases of Duane and of William Smith of South Carolina, whose characters of citizenship stood precisely on the same ground, the judges in a question of meum and tuum which came before them, decided that Duane was not a citizen; and in a question of membership, the House of Representatives, under the same words of the same provision, adjudged William Smith to be a citizen. Yet no inconvenience has ensued from these contradictory decisions. This is what I believe myself to be sound. But there is another opinion entertained by some men of such judgment and information as to lessen my confidence in my own. That is, that the legislature alone is the exclusive expounder of the sense of the constitution, in every part of it whatever. And they allege in its support, that this branch has authority to impeach and punish a member of either of the others acting contrary to its declaration of the sense of the constitution. It may indeed be answered, that an act may still be valid although the party is punished for it, right or wrong. However, this opinion which ascribes exclusive exposition to the legislature, merits respect for its safety, there being in the body of the nation a control over them, which, if expressed by rejection on the subsequent exercise of their elective franchise, enlists public opinion against their exposition, and encourages a judge or executive on a future occasion to adhere to their former opinion. Between these two doctrines, every one has a right to choose, and I know of no third meriting any respect.


The people are indeed the final arbiters.
Testicular fortitude for exercising the powers of the inherent checks and balances built into our governmental system needs to be elected by "We the People".
Voting for the lesser of the evils or the best the people feel they can hope for has brought us here.

130 posted on 08/28/2003 3:19:12 PM PDT by michigander
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To: quidnunc
The SCOTUS is the final arbiter of what is constitutional.

In Worcester vs. Georgia, 31 U.S. 515 (1832), the Supreme Court ruled the ouster of the Cherokee from their national area in nothern Georgia was unconstitutional. President Jackson ignored the ruling and used the U.S. Army to oust them anyway. It looks to me like the USSC is not always the final arbiter of what is constitutional -- it requires a coalition of the courts, the legislature, the President, and the consensus of the people at large to determine whether something is constitutional for not. Judges come and go. Interpretations change.
155 posted on 08/28/2003 3:47:18 PM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: quidnunc
"Furthermore, the US Constitutuin trumps state constitutions and state law. "

Except the Second Amendment----

per SCOTUS ---- U.S. v Cruickshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1875) and--
Presser v. State of Illinois, 116 U.S. 252 (1886)

169 posted on 08/28/2003 4:34:25 PM PDT by gatex
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