Mel Gibson's 'The Passion' Most Offensive Film

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | August 27, 2003 | Elizabeth Farah

[viaveritasvita]

JESUS CHRIST IS THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE!

[viaveritasvita]

Here's the famous quote/question...

Lord, Liar or Lunatic?

"A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic -- on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg -- or else he would be the devil of hell. YOU MUST TAKE YOUR CHOICE. Either this was, and is, the Son of God; or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool...or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us." ~C.S. Lewis, "Mere Christianity"

Jesus tells us that we are "either with Him or against Him." There is no middle ground. There is no "new age." There is no equivocation.

Young Rhino: We all make judgments every day about things, ideas, and people (is there anyone on FR who will deny they have not made a judgment about clinton???). The question really is "By what standard are we making judgments?"

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God...." 1 John 4:1 (see also Matt 7:21-23)

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[Starwind]

Then you are reading someone else's posts.

In your post #174 to Cacophonous you state you don't buy that Jesus already paid the price for sin and that sinners are to believe in Him. That is your bold in the post:

To: Cacophonous

This is fine: BUT DON'T EQUATE ME WITH A TERRORIST.

My equivliancy was to Fundamentalism and Intolerance and the belief that My Way Is the Only Way. I have made this clear over and over. I have even made clear my position that the Christian Faith is superior to others in the way it deals with humans and humanity.

The original point of this discussion stands: The question put and answer: Salvation is Only Available to Christians (The One True Way). My response: Salvation is Available to all and not necessarily thorough the Christian faith. The best example of those who intolreantly believe Salvation is Only Available to The One True Way is the Taliban and its adherents.

Nothing you have said has undermined this argument and in the softening of your position you finally have moved off of your intolerant position.

The decision to be offended was yours. You almost stumbled onto the answer "You know of course, how Christ wants Christians to behave towards those that have not accepted Him: He wants us to pray for their souls, and to try to bring them to Christ. Since He has already paid their price for them, all they have to do is believe in Him. If they choose not to, He certainly does not want us to persecute them."

I just don't buy the second to the last sentence.

But I congratulate you on tour arrival at a reasonable position.

147 posted on 08/30/2003 5:21 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Peace through Strength)
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Three times I have excerpted that sentence and your rejection of it from your post above. I'm sure you have been aware it is in fact your statement:

Since He has already paid their price for them, all they have to do is believe in Him. If they choose not to, He certainly does not want us to persecute them."

I just don't buy the second to the last sentence.

My stong belief in Christian doctrine and the Scriptures are posted herein over and over.

Belief in doctrine is not sufficient:

James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that-and shudder.

As I earlier posted in #127, you need to acknowledge Jesus such that he will acknowledge you to the Father

Matt 10:32-33
"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.

To: freedumb2003

Nice to see, but I don't think Christ's authenticity nor His being the Messiah is at issue here ... Thanks for the scholarship.

You're very welcome.

Implicit in that 'authenticity' with which you agree is the stark absence of such authenticity in other philosophies.

Christianity is not a philosophy. It is a personal relationship with the Son of God who authentically declared Himself to be so, as well as being the only 'Way' through relationship with Him - His knowing us, not merely our academic agreement that He lived and is the Son of God (since demons also believe and yet tremble) but that we acknowledge Him and he will likewise acknowledge each of us to the Father. But such acknowledgement is restricted to God (Father, Son & Spirit) and no other - We are to have no other gods.

Yet while being restrictive as to Jesus, the offer is all inclusive as to any whosoever will believe in Him.

127 posted on 08/30/2003 12:08 PM PDT by Starwind (The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
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and not be those who merely do things in His name, without acknowledging Him, instead trying to work your way into Heaven by living our lives to have everlasting life:

To: freedumb2003; P-Marlowe

anyone and everyone could go to heaven -- by doing what God through His Son asked.

God says in:

Joel 2:28
"And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions.

and Jesus said in:

Mark 16:17
And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;

So when Jesus says in:

Matt 7:21-23
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

What does Jesus mean when He says "I never knew you"?

Why doesn't Jesus acknowledge these individuals? What is different about them?

Your interpretation is that "anyone and everyone could go to heaven by doing what God through His Son asked" So what did these whom Jesus rejects not do as asked by God thru His Son?

btw: I believe Christ was God's Son and died for Me. He made it crystal clear how we are to treat one another and how to live our lives to have everlasting life.

Paul taught

Eph 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- not by works, so that no one can boast.

So how do we live our lives to have everlasting life when the Bible clearly teaches salvation is by the gift of faith [in Jesus], not how we live our lives?

142 posted on 08/30/2003 2:33 PM PDT by Starwind (The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
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Several of your posted statements are not in fidelity with scripture.

[Cacophonous]

"A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic -- on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg -- or else he would be the devil of hell. YOU MUST TAKE YOUR CHOICE. Either this was, and is, the Son of God; or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool...or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us." ~C.S. Lewis, "Mere Christianity"

I love CS Lewis' works. A good man writing well.

He had no doubts as to the divinity of Christ, and because of this, He could only have been Lord, and not lunatic or liar. Lewis would brook no nonsense about Christ being merely human. No equivocation. Therefore, everything he said and taught is true.

[wardaddy]

I find organized religions too hypocritical to stomach.

You convinced me. Are you Jewish or Christian?

[wardaddy]

strike 165.

I see you are professed Christian??

You appear to like the story but have a problem with the rules and those who take public stands on those rules simply by default.

Do you prefer silent Christians?

[wardaddy]

I have opinions (judgements in a way I suppose) based on Christianity and common sense observations and an innate sense of right and wrong which is not always strictly derived from religion.

I usually associate judgements more with opinions and action resulting in sanction. Except in rare cases and obvious civil matters, I prefer to sanction or punish social sins which I have an opinion on judiciously and more often with my vote and donations or in extreme case myself personally...as in self defense or warranted revenge (which I realize is immoral, but I'll do it anyhow).

Did that make any sense?

I prefer not to be morality police but I am willing to help steer our culture's compass back to a more sound footing in a heartbeat. Voting cultural conservative as opposed to Carrie Nation.

[wardaddy]

I have a bit of an issue with you.

I'm a Southern Prod and cannot quote scripture but I do well remember 18 years of Sunday School every week.

I always was taught that living a "good" life to the best of our abilities was to be rewarded if we accepted our Savior.

Now one could live the Golden Rule life (which seems to be what most apostate Christianity has been reduced to like some sauce) but wiothout faith and acceptance of the Savior, one is lost.

So, I agree that Salavation, accpetance and faith are critical ..in fact...absolute prerequisites but so is decent behavior once one has been shown the path.

That's the ol timey way we were taught down here.

Now I don't mean superficial stuff like going to church every week and never cursing but more matters of the true heart ...and as importantly responsibility. God's grace most definitely does not absolve us from repsonsibility for our actions no matter how much faith we have or how much we believe.

Not where I come from.

[Starwind]

I don't see anything in your post(s) I would disagree with.

I assume you're taking issue with what I've posted to freedumb2003, specifically you state about yourself:

I always was taught that living a "good" life to the best of our abilities was to be rewarded if we accepted our Savior.

So, I agree that Salavation, accpetance and faith are critical ..in fact...absolute prerequisites but so is decent behavior once one has been shown the path.

I agree with that, once one has accepted Jesus as Savior, then our behavior becomes the basis for a lesser or greater reward in Heaven, and the Holy Spirit gradually sanctifies the willing believer into increasing Christ-likeness.

Freedumb2003, however, seemingly has not accepted Jesus as Savior, as per his statements rejecting that Christ died for his/our sins, and that we can "live our lives to have everlasting life" to obtain Heaven, again as per his statements.

It is mainly those soul-endangering distinctions I felt compelled to warn against.

Further, in arguing against Christian 'intolerance' and religious fundamentalism, Freedumb2003 made some statements which seemed to convey a belief that faiths other than Christian are acceptable to God. This may a semantic difference we have, but needs clarification as to what Freedom2003 really believes.

[wardaddy]

Yes I am with you.

I think Freedumb is like many of our more secular or even downright hostile to Christians FReepers....he simply dislikes the rules and he despises those who try to live by them and desire our culture to be influenced by them.

It's really sort of simple in general.

All the Taliban and redneck and ignorant hick and theocracy comments are just histronics for effect.

I believe as do most Christians (non apostate ones) that our actions bear responsibility and we have a responsibility to our culture and our Lord and one cannot separate them entirely.

We did pretty well for nearly 200 years until Everson and Hugo erected the wall. I want to see it come down. Folks may call me whatever they want.

[tame]

Click here for An unusually strong refutation of the theory you proposed-- JESUS: GOD, MAN, OR MYTH (Real audio hilarious, yet serious argument by Walter Martin)."

Walter tells of his debate with Madalyn Murray O'Hair, etc.

[tame]

You absolutely MUST listen to the link at post #171 for a fascinating and hilarious history if the views on Jesus (go to www.Waltermartin.org and click onto the listening library to hear more).

I used to attend Walter's bible class at Newport Mesa Christian center. He was an great man.

[tame]

Please take a moment to read posts #171, and #172.

[viaveritasvita]

>>"I prefer not to be morality police but I am willing to help steer our culture's compass back to a more sound footing...."<<


I tend to think that what some call the "morality police" are really those who are willing to take a stand to help steer our culture back to a more sound footing.