Posted on 08/27/2003 6:18:43 PM PDT by joesnuffy
It does no such thing. It makes a moral equivilancy between Christian Fundamentalism and Islamic Fundamentalism. Pat Robertson and his fellow "Chirstians" forever showed their true evil nature right after 9/11 when they said the attack was God's retribution on the sinful west. Those words are indeed identical to UBL and his followers.
You (or your ilk -- it is all lost in the thread) said that no one but Chrsitians are Saved. This condemnation to Eternal Damnation for all but the Insider's Club is truly rude and uncalled for.
Don't shoot the messenger for pointing out the inherent arrogoance of this position. A position that is the SAME as the Taliban -- just honoring a different diety and suggesting a different way to damnation (they want to hurry the process along).
In no way do I make UBL=Christ. That is a strange and disingenuous interpretation. You clearly never read my post on my personal feelings on God and Christ.
Making thre truth available to all is not rude. If you want to subscribe to a philosophy where hurt feelings trump honest reasoning, go join the DU.
Vatican Says Jews' Wait For Messiah Is Validated by Old Testament - post#250
Verified and accurate prophecy is God's signature of authenticity of the bible, and thus that Jesus is His annointed begotten Son whose words are truth.
No, Christ said that noone is saved but through him. Right there in the Bible. I don't speak for Christ anymore than UBL speaks for Allah. But I know what He said.
You can play all the word games you like. Your morally equivocating Christians and terrorists reveals your true bigotry.
If by "bigotry" you mean "accurate comparison" I agree.
If by "bigotry" you mean "dislike of self-important procelytes" I am guilty as charged.
As far as Christianity goes, I think it is the one and only hope of Mankind to overcome its savage nature. It has been the only philosophy that has said, in no uncertain terms, that every Human Being is a precious thing and that all are infinitely loved by a divine Creator who sent His Son to die for each and every one of us. And this Divine Loving Creator had His Son Carry His Message of redemption and grace, which unleashed upon the world a knowledge of what Love truly is, and what it can accomplish.
I believe this to the core of my being. I think that Christ died for all whether they accept it or not.
I do no think that the passages about getting to God "but through Me (Christ)" meant necessarily becoming a Christian, but rather adherence to God's Word. Remember: Christ was the first to say that heaven was available to everybody not just the "Chosen Ones."
I believe Christian extremists have perverted this message into a creating a new set of "Chosen Ones."
Maybe if I had put this together for you a few posts ago, we could have cut to the chase. But you're funny and I enjoy watching you chase your tail.
Nice to see, but I don't think Christ's authenticity nor His being the Messiah is at issue here (but hey, who knows -- I haven't been able to keep up with MY comments much less the rest of the thread).
But it is a good reference and I'll bookmark it. Thanks for the scholarship.
Amen!
You're very welcome.
Implicit in that 'authenticity' with which you agree is the stark absence of such authenticity in other philosophies.
Christianity is not a philosophy. It is a personal relationship with the Son of God who authentically declared Himself to be so, as well as being the only 'Way' through relationship with Him - His knowing us, not merely our academic agreement that He lived and is the Son of God (since demons also believe and yet tremble) but that we acknowledge Him and he will likewise acknowledge each of us to the Father. But such acknowledgement is restricted to God (Father, Son & Spirit) and no other - We are to have no other gods.
Yet while being restrictive as to Jesus, the offer is all inclusive as to any whosoever will believe in Him.
The Bible is the most published book ever. It is also the most interpreted and misinterpreted book ever. You choose to misentrepret it, that is OK. I notice you ignore all of my post that lays out the basis for my argument against intolerance. These are also based in the Bible (read almost all of Matthew concerning the one-on-one relationship between Man and God).
You chase your tail because you selectively use the Bible as a basis for your self-built pedastal. Your continued return to this thread, despite my many efforts to let you off the hook, suggests that you understand that the house of cards you have built is feeling the winds of reason. You are NOT a member of the exclusive "God Favors Me" Club and it bothers you that all you have believed for your entire life (I assume -- but you may be a Convert which is even worse) of being Better than Everyone Else is slipping.
If "adherence to the Bible" was even POSSIBLE there would only be one "Christian" religion. Instead, there is a Tower of Bable of Christianity -- I have clearly staked my position in this debate. I have set the parameters of my belief and they stand uncontroverted. They are also more charitable than the position you have suggested that you, "as a Good Christian," have reserved for youself.
You selectively quote me as you do your Bible.
I have been accused of a lot of things on FR (being flat-out wrong being the most frequent and accurate). But equivocation is not one of them, nor is it in this case.
I make my case clear. "Simple: Follow Christ"="Simple: Follow Islam" as far as I am concerned.
I have a loooong thread about this. But let me summarize:
Amen....
I did not "Equivocate" Christian Believers and Islamists (in fact I equivocated nothing).
I presented a difficult to rebut argument equating Christian Fundamentalists and Islamic Funamentalists. They both beileve They Are Right. They both believe They are the Only Ones Who Are Right. They kill Those Who Disbelieve and do so In The Name Of God. They Condemn to Eternal Damnation Those Who do Not Agree With Themselves.
Shame on you (if you have done this) for providing aid and comfort to Killers In God's Name.
Christ spoke the Gospel of Love. He spoke the Gospel of Tolerance. He set forth rules that all could live by. His was the first Gospel that said that all mankind has been freed. Nowhere did he say My way or the Highway
That has been the position of Holier-than-thou (i.e. "better than thou since my life is too small to actually matter") holy rollers who need God's Special Protection from the Unwashed Masses.
IOTW: I have no rebuttal to your argumentation, so I Shall Pray For You to My God And Ask Him to Make You as Good As Me.
Perhaps you are ready to cross swords with Jesus?
Joh 14:6 (ASV) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me.
(CEV) "I am the way, the truth, and the life!" Jesus answered. "Without me, no one can go to the Father.
(Darby) Jesus says to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father unless by me.
(GLB) Jesus spricht zu ihm: Ich bin der Weg und die Wahrheit und das Leben; niemand kommt zum Vater denn durch mich.
(GNB) Jesus answered him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one goes to the Father except by me.
(ISV) Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
(KJV) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
(LITV) Jesus said to him, I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
(MKJV) Jesus said to him, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but by Me.
(RSV) Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.
(WEB) Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, except through me.
(Webster) Jesus saith to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no man cometh to the Father, but by me.
(WNT) "I am the Way," replied Jesus, "and the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
(YLT) Jesus saith to him, `I am the way, and the truth, and the life, no one doth come unto the Father, if not through me;
Seems to be a general concensus among all the translators that that is EXACTLY what Jesus said! So anyone who claims that there is another way to heaven other than through Jesus, they are the real CINOs. They are the ones who refuse to follow what Jesus said.
Personally if I am a Christian and Jesus said that he is the only way, then I'm gonna believe Jesus. Not some CINO who claims that there are other ways. There aren't. Either Jesus was a liar or Jesus is telling us the truth. IF there is any other way, then Jesus was a liar. If Jesus was telling the truth, then that means that those who claim that there is another way besides Jesus are the liars.
Great argumentation. Except that a proper interpretation is that Christ wanted people to follow His Example and Love Everyone. I don't take it to mean that there is a specific mandate to believe in Christ as The Only Way To Salvation.
Christ opened the door (don't forget, this was when God only had One Chosen People) and fundamentally changed the rules - anyone and everyone could go to heaven -- by doing what God through His Son asked. This was a new paradigm and quite unnerving to The Chosen Ones of the Moment.
Christians who believe they are the Only Ones Saved are merely The New Chosen Ones.
btw: I believe Christ was God's Son and died for Me. He made it crystal clear how we are to treat one another and how to live our lives to have everlasting life.
But His teachings are universal and intuitive for loving people -- but seldom heeded. THAT message is what the world needs today. Not the Christian Fundamental Intolerance.
For this one, even if you are a Jesuit, I am ready to go the distance.
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