Movers Haul Away Ten Commandments in Montgomery

FOXNews.com ^ | Wednesday, August 27, 2003

[NWO Slave]

MONTGOMERY, Ala. — A chorus of demonstrators joined an irate man in screaming "Put it back!" Wednesday morning after a monument of the Ten Commandments was wheeled away from the rotunda of the Alabama Judicial Building.

"Get your hands off our God, God haters!" yelled the wildly gesturing, red-faced man who initiated the chanting.

Workers used a dolly to move the 5,280-pound granite marker from the rotunda to another, undisclosed place in the courthouse building.

Meanwhile, a Wednesday afternoon hearing to consider a lawsuit to keep the monument in the rotunda was canceled.

The lawsuit, filed Monday in federal court in Mobile on behalf of a Christian radio talk show host and a pastor, says forced removal of the monument would violate the constitutional guarantee of freedom of religion.

Christian Defense Coalition Director Patrick Mahoney told the crowd of demonstrators that he wasn't told where the monument had been taken.

Because of its size and weight, the marker was presumably moved to another location on the ground floor of the building.

Mahoney said the monument would not be covered, and that he would be allowed inside to see it once it was moved. Mahoney said he was informed of the plans by building manager Graham George.

Mahoney didn't know whether the monument's new location would be accessible to the public.

The federal court had said the monument could be in a private place in the building but not in the highly visible spot in the rotunda directly across from the building's entrance.

Protest organizers asked the crowd outside not to rush the building or do anything else except pray. Some people seemed to be listening, with dozens kneeling, bowing or lying face-down in prayer in front of the judicial building and on the steps before and after the monument's removal.

The marker was wheeled away in a matter of minutes.

A federal judge in Montgomery ruled last year that the monument, which Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore (search) installed two years ago, violates the Constitution's ban on government promotion of religion and ordered its removal by Aug. 20. The U.S. Supreme Court last week declined to hear Moore's appeal.

But Moore refused to comply. Eight associate justices voted Aug. 21 to remove the monument, and Moore was suspended the next day.

Attorney General Bill Pryor, defending the associate justices, filed a motion Tuesday afternoon to dismiss the latest lawsuit, saying the Mobile court lacks jurisdiction and the complaint lacks merit.

About 150 monument supporters marched on Pryor's office Tuesday, demanding he resign for supporting the associate justices' decision. Seven representatives were allowed inside to meet with Pryor's chief deputy for about 20 minutes. The rest remained outside, chanting, "Resign now! Resign now!"

Gatherings of pro-monument demonstrators outside the judicial building have grown each day in the past week to at times number in the hundreds.

People seeking removal of the monument from its public site had said they were grateful that it was finally being moved, a week after the deadline set by a federal judge.

"This is a tremendous victory for the rule of law and respect for religious diversity," the Rev. Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, said before the monument was rolled out of the rotunda. "Perhaps Roy Moore will soon leave the bench and move into the pulpit, which he seems better suited for."

Lynne's organization was among groups suing to remove Moore's monument, which he installed without telling the other eight Supreme Court justices.

Demonstrators promised to keep up their protests of the removal.

"If it takes 75 years to reclaim this land for righteousness, God find us and our children and our children's children ready," said the Rev. Rob Schenck, president of the national clergy council.

Affirmative Action Judge Opposing Judge Roy Moore

[PleaseNoMore]

The original issue was that the school took the child's bible during a time set aside for the children to read independently.

[the herald]

"Odd question, and pretty open-ended. I believe in a mother's love for her child. I believe that we have a very short time on this amazing planet, so each day is worth a lot. I believe that the Constitution of the United States is one of the most important documents ever written. I believe in love at first sight. I believe in being faithful to the ones you love. I believe in giving a fellow the benefit of the doubt."

You also believe in arguing with people. Are you lonely? Do you need human interaction so badly that you have to pick fights with small-minded people? I happen to share your position on this issue, but I wouldn't have spent the better part of the day debating semantics with born-agains.

[MineralMan]

"The original issue was that the school took the child's bible during a time set aside for the children to read independently"

Yup, and both I and RoughDoberman both said that was a wrong thing to do.

[MineralMan]

"Are you lonely? Do you need human interaction so badly that you have to pick fights with small-minded people? I happen to share your position on this issue, but I wouldn't have spent the better part of the day debating semantics with born-agains."

Nope, not lonely. It happens that today is a slack day for me at my business. I'm leaving town for the weekend tomorrow and have caught up on all my work. So, it has amused me to participate in this thread. Soon, though, I must go to the dentist and have some painful stitches removed following an extraction of two teeth last week. I must say, I enjoy bantering on FR more than dental visits. [grin]

[RoughDobermann]

The original issue was that the school took the child's bible during a time set aside for the children to read independently.

Right, and if you'll refer back to post #203...

[nfldgirl]

Parental pressure can be an awesome thing...

(1) Are you a parent?

(2) I agree that some children do respond only to the "wishes of their parents" and that their choice to become a Christian may not be entirely, sincerely their own. But again, at some point, ultimately it IS THEY who must choose for themselves...no one, not even parents, can know the true nature of a person's heart, and parents cannot "choose" salvation for their children. It must be of their own volition. We can lead them, but we can't make them "drink the water."

[PleaseNoMore]

"Yup, and both I and RoughDoberman both said that was a wrong thing to do. "

Ok, fair enough. RD, I concede as I apparently missed your reply stating as much. This thread did move a little fast before I left to get the kids from school and when I got back there were so many replies that I must've missed it. Opening mouth...inserting fingers.....:o)

[Lord_Baltar]

Maryjean;

It's hardly a "hissy fit". You Said Trashcan, Did you not?

There is a HUGE Difference between a Mass of Teachers tossing Bibles into Trashcans, and ONE Teacher taking a girls Bible and giving to the Office, which would then give it back at the end of the day.

Your discription is Spin, meant to imply a movement to martyrize Christians, by forcefully removing their Bibles, and Destroying them.

However, your example you presented to defend your assertation is One Teacher taking one Bible, which was later returned. Hardly a Movement.

How is it a Hissy Fit to call you on your "error"...

[PleaseNoMore]

Say this over and over to yourself..."The dentist is my friend." It is the ONLY thing that gets me through a visit to one. Seriously, I hope that all goes well for you during your visit and that your pain will be alleviated soon.

[PleaseNoMore]

"Hardly a Movement."

With all due respect, it only takes one to start a movement.

[Lord_Baltar]

"I said that in some cities, police have knocked on the doors of homes where Bible studies are held and have told the homeowners they can't have their meetings any longer because the cars of those who attend take up all the available parking on the street. These people were parked legally. The police had no standing to make the request that the meetings stop happening. It was an attempt at intimidation."

Reference/Evidence Please

[DBrow]

"All the TV cameras were following this plaid shirt guy, hoping for the money shot--you know, plaid shirt guy being busted by the cops charging through the window, plaid shirt guy being handcuffed while writhing about and still screaming, plaid shirt guy being dragged away by the cops & being tossed in the back of a cop car, purple faced & still screaming, maybe banging his head on the window of the cop car. Cue up "Bad boy bad boy whatcha gonna do....." TV loves those kind of shots. "

Could it be that Plaid Shirt Guy was a media plant, to provide "good camera"? Or a shill provided by some organization with a stake in the issue, to make the supporters of the monument look bad, undermine their position? A common Goebbels tactic of a few decades ago.

The reporter did not get his name, which is interesting- could it have been Greg Packer?

[MarthaNOStewart]

Yes, the Laws of Hammurabi were in 6000 BC (eye for eye)very similar to Ten Commandments, and have nothing to do with USA. Our laws were taken from the 1600's common law in England. Those common laws contain the Ten Commandments and scripture as their base and were predominate for several centuries, thereby making our criminal law origin including the Ten Commandments.
I feel saddened that people do not understand the First Amendment which says "CONGRESS" SHALL MAKE NO LAW ESTABLISHING RELIGION. I ask, and where is there such a piece of legislation? CONGRESS seems to have no comment.
I may not agree with some of the emotion displayed, however the Ten Commandments were fine where they were, and appropriatly placed, based on where our law came from.
We haven't asked them to remove the naked woman from the halls of justice? The liberals are fine with that, its art they would say.
"Seperation of Church and State", and where is that written in our Constitution??? It isn't there. To quote the First Amendment: "CONGRESS shall make no law establishing a respect of religion, or prohibiting the excercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
It really isn't all that hard to understand, its just impossible for some people to be reminded of their sin.

[MineralMan]

"Say this over and over to yourself..."The dentist is my friend." It is the ONLY thing that gets me through a visit to one. Seriously, I hope that all goes well for you during your visit and that your pain will be alleviated soon."

Yeah, right. I'm more inclined to believe that the dentist is an agent of Satan, but I don't believe in Satan, so I guess that's out. I'm on this dental plan and don't have a lot of choice, and this guy's just not very good at his job. This last extraction, he couldn't get it numbed up properly, then broke the tooth and had to dig around in my jaw for little pieces of the root. Now, that hurt! Not as much as breaking a leg, but enough. Then, he had to put in stitches, but did them too tightly, so they've been irritating as the dickens all week. Thank heaven for Anbesol and Aspirin. Soon it will be over, though.

I'm much more concerned for my 79-year-old mom, who is having back surgery tomorrow morning for a pinched spinal cord. It should go just fine, but I hope the surgeon sleeps well tonight. My little toothache is minor stuff, but I still hate my dentist! Can't help it.

[MineralMan]

Oddly enough, though, Hammurabi is up on the frieze above the SCOTUS chambers, right along with Moses, Confucious, and Mohammed. Apparently he's considered one of the lawgivers, too.

[PleaseNoMore]

The establishment clause was not intended to insulate the public sector from any and all things religious although in today's uneducated and liberal society most have been brainwashed into believing it was.

[RoughDobermann]

(1) Are you a parent?

Yes, I am, proudly! :-)

(2) I agree that some children do respond only to the "wishes of their parents" and that their choice to become a Christian may not be entirely, sincerely their own. But again, at some point, ultimately it IS THEY who must choose for themselves...no one, not even parents, can know the true nature of a person's heart, and parents cannot "choose" salvation for their children. It must be of their own volition. We can lead them, but we can't make them "drink the water."

Agreed. As parents, we all (well, some sickos don't...) want the best for our children. Is it natural for us to want our children to share our beliefs? I suppose so. The thing that gets me is when some people assert that "little Jimmy chose to go to church" or "little Jane accepted Christ as her savior" all by themselves, when they aren't even old enough to fully understand what they are being taught. Seriesly, that's all. Nothing would make me happier than if my children grow up and accept some kind of faith via their own volition. But I will not lead them down one path; I will allow them to explore them all. What they choose to do and what path they decide to take will be up to them. That being said, I WILL intervene if they decide to become Democrats! ;-)

[nfldgirl]

It's hardly a "hissy fit". You Said Trashcan, Did you not?

You need to go back and read the entire thread. I personally did not use the word "Trashcan". That was posted by someone else. I also DID NOT state anything to the fact that there was some conspiracy taking place to prevent children reading Bibles in school. I merely recounted an occurrence that took place in the life of a family with whom I am acquainted. That's all. I never said it had anything to do with "trashing" Bibles, but it was somewhat relative in that a student's Bible was taken from her without just cause. Period!!!!! What is it about my responses that you don't understand...that you're not getting?!!!! Argggh!!!!!

[RoughDobermann]

Ok, fair enough. RD, I concede as I apparently missed your reply stating as much. This thread did move a little fast before I left to get the kids from school and when I got back there were so many replies that I must've missed it. Opening mouth...inserting fingers.....:o)

No problem. This thread has moved rather quickly.

[PleaseNoMore]

ROFL. I was going to post that dentists were "of the devil" but didn't as I figured that you didn't believe in him either!

Would it be offensive to you if I said that I would certainly keep your mother ( as well as yourself ) in my prayers? I hope not.