Movers Haul Away Ten Commandments in Montgomery

FOXNews.com ^ | Wednesday, August 27, 2003

[NWO Slave]

MONTGOMERY, Ala. — A chorus of demonstrators joined an irate man in screaming "Put it back!" Wednesday morning after a monument of the Ten Commandments was wheeled away from the rotunda of the Alabama Judicial Building.

"Get your hands off our God, God haters!" yelled the wildly gesturing, red-faced man who initiated the chanting.

Workers used a dolly to move the 5,280-pound granite marker from the rotunda to another, undisclosed place in the courthouse building.

Meanwhile, a Wednesday afternoon hearing to consider a lawsuit to keep the monument in the rotunda was canceled.

The lawsuit, filed Monday in federal court in Mobile on behalf of a Christian radio talk show host and a pastor, says forced removal of the monument would violate the constitutional guarantee of freedom of religion.

Christian Defense Coalition Director Patrick Mahoney told the crowd of demonstrators that he wasn't told where the monument had been taken.

Because of its size and weight, the marker was presumably moved to another location on the ground floor of the building.

Mahoney said the monument would not be covered, and that he would be allowed inside to see it once it was moved. Mahoney said he was informed of the plans by building manager Graham George.

Mahoney didn't know whether the monument's new location would be accessible to the public.

The federal court had said the monument could be in a private place in the building but not in the highly visible spot in the rotunda directly across from the building's entrance.

Protest organizers asked the crowd outside not to rush the building or do anything else except pray. Some people seemed to be listening, with dozens kneeling, bowing or lying face-down in prayer in front of the judicial building and on the steps before and after the monument's removal.

The marker was wheeled away in a matter of minutes.

A federal judge in Montgomery ruled last year that the monument, which Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore (search) installed two years ago, violates the Constitution's ban on government promotion of religion and ordered its removal by Aug. 20. The U.S. Supreme Court last week declined to hear Moore's appeal.

But Moore refused to comply. Eight associate justices voted Aug. 21 to remove the monument, and Moore was suspended the next day.

Attorney General Bill Pryor, defending the associate justices, filed a motion Tuesday afternoon to dismiss the latest lawsuit, saying the Mobile court lacks jurisdiction and the complaint lacks merit.

About 150 monument supporters marched on Pryor's office Tuesday, demanding he resign for supporting the associate justices' decision. Seven representatives were allowed inside to meet with Pryor's chief deputy for about 20 minutes. The rest remained outside, chanting, "Resign now! Resign now!"

Gatherings of pro-monument demonstrators outside the judicial building have grown each day in the past week to at times number in the hundreds.

People seeking removal of the monument from its public site had said they were grateful that it was finally being moved, a week after the deadline set by a federal judge.

"This is a tremendous victory for the rule of law and respect for religious diversity," the Rev. Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, said before the monument was rolled out of the rotunda. "Perhaps Roy Moore will soon leave the bench and move into the pulpit, which he seems better suited for."

Lynne's organization was among groups suing to remove Moore's monument, which he installed without telling the other eight Supreme Court justices.

Demonstrators promised to keep up their protests of the removal.

"If it takes 75 years to reclaim this land for righteousness, God find us and our children and our children's children ready," said the Rev. Rob Schenck, president of the national clergy council.

Affirmative Action Judge Opposing Judge Roy Moore

[Proud_texan]

I guess you believe in the religion of evolution or chaos theory (which have to taken on faith, like God) but after many decades of struggling I realized that to believe that there was no God was like believing Mt. Rushmore had been formed by erosion. Take the ocular nerve. That just evolve out of random combinations of DNA?

Perhaps that's your belief system, it was mine for a while but then when I applied a couple of decades of growing up I realized how foolish I was, I wasn't even smart enough to recognize what my own deductive logic told me.

Once I put away my pride at thinking that there wasn't anything more important than me it opened up a whole new life for me. I'm far from even being a good Christian and I don't claim to know what God thinks but I pray that all those years when I didn't believe in God he believed in me and I thank Him that he gave me a brain and the ability to make mistakes.

Just some things for you to consider, perhaps you have and have discarded them but I could have written the same things at one time so I wanted to share them.

[jimt]

So, for those of you who choose to disavow the contents, you're perfectly within your right to do so, but it doesn't negate the FACT that there is a BOOK called the BIBLE with a story therein that points to GOOD NEWS as delineated throughout the text. THAT, my friend, is fact.

There is a book called the Bible. Indisputable fact.

Here we part company.

The Bible, which I've read many times, is more a collection of stories than one story. There is a major change in tone between the Old Testament and the New Testament. The four Gospels seem different to me than the writings of Paul. Revelations seems to stand largely on its own.

I understand what you're saying regarding "GOOD NEWS" - that God gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but shall have everlasting life. You believe that is 'GOOD NEWS" and you're entitled to that belief. There are people who do not, and that makes it opinion rather than fact.

[FreeRep]

Here's a Ten Commandments Poll.


http://www.hdnews.net/


Thanks

[PleaseNoMore]

Well the proposed uniform was khaki pants or skirts and white polos and oxfords. My OWN son was one of those that led the revolt against it, lol, but of course, the decision belonged to the students and not us, the parents. My concern is that the new principal is one who believes in giving students a liberal amount of leverage and that running the school is "like running a town" rather than an institution of learning institution. Needless to say, I have become a thorn in her side since the tshirt issue. I do have to appreciate the fact that she has not singled my son out since that incident. It is almost as if she is concerned that she may offend me further. At least that is what I gather from her tone whenever we speak at a cross country meet or other school functions which I frequently attend.

[MineralMan]

"I guess you believe in the religion of evolution or chaos theory "

You needn't guess what I believe. You can ask me. Guessing about people's beliefs is risky.

[nfldgirl]

I don't like to see a child FORCED into accepting any religion or pseudo-religion, or lack of one.

If you want to label it as children being "FORCED" into accepting any religion, then fine, you're entitled to call it whatever you want. But let me say this: I can "force" my child to go to church, and I can "force" him to sit there and listen, observe, etc., but I cannot "FORCE" him to take to heart that which he is exposed to. He can go and sit and not participate or whatever, he can tune out any and everything he's hearing...I have no control over that. HE can decide to reject it all--he will always have the freedom to make that choice. But at least as his parents, we can lead him in a direction that parallels our beliefs and our convictions--that which we believe will be a great benefit in his life in the long-run. He still has the freedom to reject those teachings, beliefs, convictions if he so chooses. We can never force him into any sort of "conversion." That's totally beyond our realm of capability. Would you not agree?

As far as "forcing" him to do something against his will...? Well, I force him to get up, make his bed, pick up his clothes, feed our animals, go to school, practice piano, and do his homework just about everyday, and that's against his will as well. So...again, I ask you...what's your point?

[PleaseNoMore]

You know, I can completely appreciate your reasons for reading the bible for its historical content. As one who does read it for its historical content, you may be better able to understand some scripture than a number of Christians.

[berserker]

David McMullen, of Tracey City, Tenn., blows his shofar outside the Alabama Judicial Building in Montgomery, Ala., as state officials move the Ten Commandments monument from the rotunda of the building inside. A federal judge had ordered the monument removed from public view. Hundreds of demonstrators have maintained a 24-hour vigil on the monument to prevent officials from removing it from the building. At right is the Rev. Flip Benham, director of Operation Rescue. (AP Photo/Dave Martin)

[PleaseNoMore]

I know many children who have non Christian parents but who choose to go to church and who choose to be Christians themselves.

[Proud_texan]

You listed all the things you don't believe in, so I didn't bother figuring you didn't want to say but I was wrong; what do you believe in?

[MineralMan]

"My concern is that the new principal is one who believes in giving students a liberal amount of leverage and that running the school is "like running a town" rather than an institution of learning institution."

Some schools take this too far, but, it's still essential to begin in HS to move kids from being children to being grownups. After all, when they graduate, they'll be able to vote, marry, etc. Still, it can go too far.

[vikingcelt]

"Well, if the child was not ASKED if she wanted to go to Church or learn about Christianity, what else was she BUT forced? Would goaded, coerced, guilted, tricked be any better? How about "strongly suggest?"

You could use the same argument about going to school. I basically had to be "forced" to go to school. I didn't much like it but I had to go. It was the law that I attend school. I DIDN"T have to go to church or Sunday school. I went because that was the custom in my family. I am finding your arguments to be quite weak. You don't ask a child who is 3 or 4 years old what they want since at that age they don't KNOW what they want. (But they DO know that they like being part of a loving family and if part of what that loving family does is attend church, then they like that too.) The age of reason is, I believe, supposed to be 7 but even at that age what child knows what they want? You are assuming that children don't enjoy going to Sunday School, that they don't enjoy going to church, that they don't enjoy and prosper by being part of a family that worships together. Apparently you never had any of these experiences or you would not profess to be an atheist. Or else you had them and they just didn't "take". Quite honestly, it is almost impossible for me to conceive of someone who can look around themselves at all the wonders of nature, the creation of children, all of these miracles that we are so very fortunate to be a witness of daily and not believe in a "higher power." I find that alarming and I find that sad. Apparently, you have no sense of wonder.

[risk]

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? -- Matthew 7:22, KJV

[RoughDobermann]

No, I'm not so sure I agree. A child that is forced to attend church, is forced to be baptized, etc. is more likely to follow the "wishes" of the parents and become a Christian than one that has not been forced to engage in any religious activity, true? Parental pressure can be an awesome thing...

As far as "forcing" him to do something against his will...? Well, I force him to get up, make his bed, pick up his clothes, feed our animals, go to school, practice piano, and do his homework just about everyday, and that's against his will as well. So...again, I ask you...what's your point?

Again, I'll state my point: Would she have taken it if her parents hadn't forced Christianity upon her? Yes or no?

[MineralMan]

"You know, I can completely appreciate your reasons for reading the bible for its historical content. As one who does read it for its historical content, you may be better able to understand some scripture than a number of Christians."

Thanks. I'm not sure about the understanding part, but I do try. Many Christians have never actually read the Bible, I'm always surprised to find. Many have read little bits of it, here and there, and have little idea of the rest. I find this sad.

My great-grandmother, who I knew only briefly, had the entire New Testament committed to memory. When I visited her at age 11, she amazed me by being able to quote passages verbatim if you gave her the reference. Since I had only just finished reading the whole Bible a month or so earlier, it was all the more impressive.

Now, I'm not sure how much of it she really understood, since she wasn't very good with "What does that mean?" sorts of questions, but she knew it down pat.

Just an old, fun story from my childhood in a very strange family.

[PleaseNoMore]

I am not Mean Maryjean but would like to address your question. WHO knows if this child would have chosen to bring her bible to class on her own? No one. That is NOT the issue.

[MineralMan]

"You listed all the things you don't believe in, so I didn't bother figuring you didn't want to say but I was wrong; what do you believe in?
"

Odd question, and pretty open-ended. I believe in a mother's love for her child. I believe that we have a very short time on this amazing planet, so each day is worth a lot. I believe that the Constitution of the United States is one of the most important documents ever written. I believe in love at first sight. I believe in being faithful to the ones you love. I believe in giving a fellow the benefit of the doubt.

There's lots more. If you have something specific, I'll be glad to tell you.

[RoughDobermann]

You are missing my point (as are others). Here: "What I was attempting to state was that, chances are, this girl has been exposed to the Christian faith since she was a baby, beginning with baptism, attending service, perhaps sunday school, etc. Did she do this of her own volition? Did she wake up one morning and say, "Daddy. I want to become a Christian!" If so, great. If not, she has not been allowed to be an "independent thinker" and the fact that she chose to take a Bible to school is hardly surprising."

Get it?

[RoughDobermann]

WHO knows if this child would have chosen to bring her bible to class on her own? No one.

That's true, we'll never know. However, the original poster made the assertion that she DID chose to do so.

That is NOT the issue.

It is for me.

[MineralMan]

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? -- Matthew 7:22, KJV"

Good verse, and one which should be studied carefully by Christians who vaunt themselves on television and claim to have the "true" word of their deity.

Doesn't apply to me, though. I've never done anything in the name of a deity.