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To: billbears
I was with Turtledove up until WWI.

He was probably pretty accurate the way things would have turned out. Why wouldn't a President Longstreet ignore the Confederate Constitution by freeing the slaves even though he lacked the power, thus showing the same contempt for the constitution that President Davis did? Why wouldn't blacks have continued to be third or fourth class citizens in the south, continuing the laws that were on the books prior to the war and enacted immediately after it? Why wouldn't an independent Confederacy and the remaining United States be at odds, fighting multiple wars after the Civil War, continuing the animosity you believe was inevitable? Now I don't agree with the current thread of a cracker Hitler rising out of the ashes of a defeated south. I believe that the south would have embraced tyranny again, but only so far and would have found the idea of exterminating an entire race as repulsive.

63 posted on 08/26/2003 6:40:16 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur
Why wouldn't a President Longstreet ignore the Confederate Constitution by freeing the slaves even though he lacked the power, thus showing the same contempt for the constitution that President Davis did?

Because contrary to your opinion and in agreement with even some of the Southern papers of the time, slavery was becoming too costly. More than likely an amendment would have been added to free the slaves much as some of the leading officials of the South wanted.

Why wouldn't blacks have continued to be third or fourth class citizens in the south, continuing the laws that were on the books prior to the war and enacted immediately after it

Contrary to those 'freedom-loving' northerners, eh? Would they have been treated much as Grant and his lackeys treated Jews?

Why wouldn't an independent Confederacy and the remaining United States be at odds, fighting multiple wars after the Civil War, continuing the animosity you believe was inevitable?

I truly believe an independent Confederacy would have seen the need to establish strong economic ties to the north. But then again, the north needed the Confederacy much more than the other way around. The Confederacy would have had strong economic partners. What would the north have had? Empty factories and a national bank with no money coming into it. However the Confederacy would always be wary of entering into any sort of contract with their brethren from the north. They had been burned before and did not want to become the north's pocketbook again.

Now I don't agree with the current thread of a cracker Hitler rising out of the ashes of a defeated south. I believe that the south would have embraced tyranny again, but only so far and would have found the idea of exterminating an entire race as repulsive.

Well at least we agree there. However I think the north would have been forced to embrace tyranny, through the form of socialism, much quicker. They would have almost had to. If the war had gone much longer, I think any self respecting person from either side would have embraced the idea of a settled peace. Of course that's all my ancestors wanted all along, to be left alone.

66 posted on 08/26/2003 7:53:15 PM PDT by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: Non-Sequitur
Why wouldn't blacks have continued to be third or fourth class citizens in the south, continuing the laws that were on the books prior to the war and enacted immediately after it?

There is absolutely no reason to believe that my ancestors would not have remained 3rd or 4th class citizens. Hell, they probably wouldn't even have been considered citizens.


83 posted on 08/27/2003 8:57:53 AM PDT by rdb3 (They've read all the books but they can't find the answers...)
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