Baptism in Tigris for US Fighters

Reuters ^ | 8/27/03 | Cawthorne

[ImaGraftedBranch]

Baptism in the Tigris for U.S. Christian Soldiers
Sun August 24, 2003 07:28 AM ET
By Andrew Cawthorne

TIKRIT, Iraq (Reuters) - Nineteen-year-old Private Bill Goodwin puts down his gun, takes off his combat jacket and steps into the warm waters of Iraq's Tigris River.

"I baptize you in the name of Jesus Christ," proclaims his unit's Protestant chaplain, Xuan Tran, submerging the soldier completely for Sunday's baptism rite. Goodwin emerges smiling and posing for a photo to send to his family in Oklahoma before reflecting on what he has done.

"I have been away for five and a half months and have though a lot about this. I could die here. I realized it was necessary to get baptized," he said.

For many of the 132,000 American soldiers occupying Iraq, religion is an important solace as they face loneliness, hardship and the possibility of losing their lives.

Most profess religious belief, with only a small percentage describing themselves as atheist, their chaplains and commanders say.

Protestants and Catholics make up the majority, although the full spectrum of religions is represented, including Islam.

Chaplain Tran, a Southern Baptist minister, performs regular baptisms of U.S. troops in the waters of the Tigris at a U.S. base in a former palace of Saddam Hussein at his hometown of Tikrit, north of Baghdad.

Many such rituals reflect the widespread evangelical belief that a Christian must be "born again" through adult baptism.

"For some, it is the first time, for others it is a re-dedication of their lives. They face many risks here, and want to make sure they have a right relationship with God," Tran said, before taking Sunday's communion service on the base.

THOU SHALT NOT KILL?

The soldiers see no moral conflict between their Christian faith and their battlefield duties.

Many have killed or wounded Iraqis during the intense hunt for guerrillas and former regime loyalists around Tikrit, a hotbed of anti-American resistance and pro-Saddam sentiment. "The Bible says 'thou shalt not kill' but the original Greek says 'thou shalt not take a judicially innocent life.' Saddam and his men are pretty evil, if they were tried in any court, they would be found guilty," said Goodwin.

"I don't think it's a problem because God sent people to war. Just look at the Old Testament," added Corporal Christian Gaspard, also baptized Sunday.

Lieutenant Colonel Steve Russell, who leads the 1st Battalion, 22nd Regiment, seems to be one of his unit's most devout believers. He has suffered two deaths and 30 injuries among his men so far -- a relatively small toll given several months of round-the-clock raids in Tikrit.

"God is watching over this battalion, believe me," he said.

Most of the Christian soldiers say they believe what they are doing is right because of the brutalities of Saddam's regime. They are only vaguely aware of objections by the international anti-war lobby and the rising dissatisfaction of Iraqis themselves with the occupation.

There is little sympathy among them, however, for the notion that the invasion of Iraq may form part of a wider international clash of civilizations -- Christianity against Islam.

"Maybe we don't understand them (Muslims), but this has nothing to do with religion," added Gaspard, a 24-year-old from Louisiana. "We are here to do what (U.S. President) George Bush said -- find weapons of mass destruction."

[ImaGraftedBranch]

I LOVE this part:

"The Bible says 'thou shalt not kill' but the original Greek says 'thou shalt not take a judicially innocent life.'"...said Goodwin.

Hmmm. I was not aware that God spoke to Moses in Greek.

[Finalapproach29er]

Good post.

[Hyacinth Bucket]

"The Bible says 'thou shalt not kill' but the original Greek says 'thou shalt not take a judicially innocent life.'"...said Goodwin.

I agree. Bible scholars say that a better translation of this commandment should be
"Thou shalt not murder".
There are times when killing is not considered murder (death penalty, war, self defense, etc.).

[jimtorr]

The first official Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures, done in Egypt, was probably the best translation, and the closest to the original.

[GatekeeperBookman]

Not as good as the post from last evening-this one focuses on the slant ( WMD ) & seems to serve the Left-but then there is no FR reporter on scene.

The example of the Baptisms is still profound, even when 'colored' by the Left.

[FlyVet]

"The Bible says 'thou shalt not kill' but the original Greek says 'thou shalt not take a judicially innocent life.'"...said Goodwin.

Um, that'll be a duh. Non-believers used to throw that "Thou shall not kill" in my face all the time. I didn't need anyone to tell me what that meant. Common sense told me it meant "Thou shall not murder." Otherwise, I have to go to hell for hunting and taking a deer, or for stepping on an ant on the sidewalk. Duh.

[George W. Bush]

Well, these baptisms are a good thing.

But it is quite odd that baptism has become so misused.

Many churches baptize infants which was never done in the time of Jesus. In many non-Roman churches, people delay for years or decades or, like Constantine, wait virtually until they are on their deathbeds.

But the simple example, repeated over and over in scripture in the descriptions of the conversion and baptism of thousands, is that baptism followed conversion very shortly, almost immediately.

Conversion then baptism. This is the simple and unexceptioned record the New Testament provides. There is no sound reason to deviate from it as the means of baptism and communion are very modest and common.

[Prodigal Son]

There is no sound reason to deviate from it

LOL, I'm sure everyone feels like that about their own religion.

[aardvark1]

I was not aware that God spoke to Moses in Greek.

Reading some of the responses to your post makes me think you may have been too subtle with your post.

[MarMema]

I suppose this has been done as a thread in the religion forum but it might be fun to discuss this further between us. How about on the other thread where we were talking?

[George W. Bush]

Reading some of the responses to your post makes me think you may have been too subtle with your post.

Perhaps the rest of us weren't surprised that military chaplains aren't always top Bible scholars. This is by no means true of all of them.

[George W. Bush]

I suppose this has been done as a thread in the religion forum but it might be fun to discuss this further between us. How about on the other thread where we were talking?

Fine. Being a Baptist, I'm always happy to discuss the error of premature baptisms or ridiculously delayed baptisms.

[TheBattman]

Bump for later...

[B-Chan]

Many churches baptize infants which was never done in the time of Jesus

1. Not true.

“And when she was baptized, with her household [= husband, children and servants], she besought us, saying, "If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay." And she prevailed upon us.” (Acts 16:15)

“And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their wounds, and he was baptized at once, with all his family.” (Acts 16:33)

2. Praise music, family life centers, and the idea that drinking wine is a sin were unknown in our Lord's time.

3. “Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.” (1 Peter 3:21)

[B-Chan]

Many churches baptize infants which was never done in the time of Jesus

1. Not true.

“And when she was baptized, with her household [= husband, children and servants], she besought us, saying, "If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay." And she prevailed upon us.” (Acts 16:15)

“And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their wounds, and he was baptized at once, with all his family.” (Acts 16:33)

2. Praise music, family life centers, and the idea that drinking wine is a sin were unknown in our Lord's time.

3. “Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.” (1 Peter 3:21)

[RoughDobermann]

Hmmm. I was not aware that God spoke to Moses in Greek.

Nor was I aware that He spoke to him in English. That's the language in my bible! ;-)

[George W. Bush]

1. Not true.

“And when she was baptized, with her household [= husband, children and servants], she besought us, saying, "If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay." And she prevailed upon us.” (Acts 16:15) “And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their wounds, and he was baptized at once, with all his family.” (Acts 16:33)

Yes, this is well-known. But it does not mention whether infants were present. Now you will undoubtedly say, 'but it didn't say there were no infants'. Yada-yada-yada.

There are no examples of infants being baptized in the New Testament. Absolutely none. All those who were named as converted and baptized were adults. Period.

But if you guys want to play Bible lawyer and sneak through some 'omission', that's your business. However, by baptizing infants, you are baptizing those who have not received Christ of whom many will never profess a saving faith and you are preventing those who later profess a faith in Christ from the personal spiritual experience of receiving baptism as a confession of their personal faith in Christ and their first simple act of obedience to Christ's command, in exactly the same way as it is depicted throughout the New Testament.

If you're a believer, I would urge you to be baptized. Your parents getting a minister or priest to splash some water on you means nothing. Christ and the disciples said repeatedly, "believe and be baptized". In that order. If you believe, you should then be baptized. Just like every member of the ancient churches.

[ImaGraftedBranch]

Reading some of the responses to your post makes me think you may have been too subtle with your post.

Yes. Perhaps. :(

[Guillermo]

Jesus accepted the Greek translation of the Old Testament as valed.

If it's good enough for Him, it should be good enough for us.

[Guillermo]

*valid