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To: GB
Okay, W is strong on Defense and the War On Terror and is perveived as a strong leader. And you're telling me he's in political danger because of some arcane overtime rule? Who ya gonna vote for, Howard Dean? He'll fix the overtime rule.
77 posted on 08/24/2003 8:16:57 AM PDT by Cedric
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To: Cedric
I intend to vote for G.W. Bush because he's strong on defense, is waging the war on terror, is a strong leader and because he's the most electable conservative candidate.

But you see, I'm a Freeper, I'm a true conservative and have been for more than three decades and I understand these things and understand what a president's most important role is, and I want to see this country returned to the values that made it great.

What you have to realize, though, is that people like us are in the minority in this country. You can quote every poll in the world about how many people call themselves conservative, how many people call themselves liberal, etc. And I will still contend that "true" conservatives like we are are in a minority, just as the real radical leftists are in a minority as well. Where elections are decided is in the middle.

It was the middle that gave Reagan his big majority in '84 ... or do you think everyone who voted for him in places like New York, etc., all favored true conservatism?

I told you, I can make a philosophical argument that the overtime rules in question are arcane and do not apply to the way things are in 2003.

However, it is issues like those that do resonate with those voters in the middle ... many of whom, whether it's stupidity or not, have structured their economic situation around the fact that they have regular overtime coming in ... who have often shown an inclination to vote for us even if they really don't buy our entire agenda. I just said this in another thread, there are people out there who vote for us, who like tax cuts, who like our position on social issues, who like our positions on defense, the war on terror, etc. ... but who at the same time have no great inclination to undo the New Deal and Great Society, and who have been conditioned to look to the president of the U.S. as the individual responsible for keeping them employed.

So from a political standpoint, is it not utter madness to do something to piss those folks off, and that rightly or wrongly simply invites caricature as the eeeeevilll GOP kowtowing to the corporate special interests and stepping on the throats of the little people, a year before a presidential election?

I truly believe the economic situation is turning around. I pray that things are better by the spring of next year at the latest, I think we need six months of good economic news before the election to make it a lot easier to seal this deal.

But if things don't turn around, and the farther we get removed from 9/11, I believe that in that middle group of voters that decides elections, the war on terror, defense, etc., are going to become secondary to economic issues, because those are the issues that are more tangible to people.

And yes, I'd like to see Howard Dean get the Dem nomination, because I think he'd be the easiest of the crew to beat.

84 posted on 08/24/2003 8:57:29 AM PDT by GB
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To: Cedric
Don't underestimate him on the economic issue, which is the only issue the Dems have (albeit, its #1). I listened to Dean during one of the CSPAN debates, the message he puts forth on things like pension reform, the abuses of the corporate sector, this overtime thing, etc. If he grabs hold of this jobs offshoring issue, watch out, he can make a formidable argument on the economy. And please, don't flame me about "what would Dean do to fix it". He doesn't have to say anything about that, the challenger need only attack the incumbent. Of course Dean has no real ideas, but alot of middle class people are not politically in touch as we are here, they would vote for him as an "economic reformer".
90 posted on 08/24/2003 9:26:37 AM PDT by oceanview
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To: Cedric
The result of offshoring and outsourcing is net downwards social mobility for middle class Americans. And let us leave aside the fact that without the low-semi skilled stable manufacturing jobs that have been shipped overseas it is not possible to work your way out of the ghetto.

The president is expected to at least notice, not to respond with some bogus "retraining" nonsense. This has Americans scared.

And what if we have another high fuel bill harsh winter ? Bush will be toast in the Northeast and Midwest.
92 posted on 08/24/2003 9:33:58 AM PDT by Tokhtamish
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