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To: eldoradude
A chemical engineer friend once told me that every time you convert one form of energy to another, due to the mechanism(s) involved, you will LOSE efficiences.

So, If you burn gasoline to power a generator to create electricity, you are in the red, big time, in the energy efficiency pond.

The concept of an electric car is ludicrous; for instance, the electric utility has to burn X amount of coal or gas, then use that to create steam water to spin turbine blades connected to a 50 ton (whatever the weight) armature to spin generating armature to generate wattage which will have to be sent through a grid network (remember last week when the network was ailing? real reliable, huh?) to the future Exxons/Mobile service stations selling electricity... These people can't think through the process.

I'd say that portable fuels should be be used for portable means of transportation. Gasoline for cars and trucks, kerosene for the bigger trucks, tractors, diesel locomotives, etc.

Other forms of energy that the above sector can't mange, like COAL and NUKE energy should be utilized be GENERATING PLANTS. They don't move around too much; last I heard.

31 posted on 08/23/2003 6:47:43 PM PDT by Cobra64 (Babes should wear Bullet Bras - www.BulletBras.net)
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To: Cobra64
A chemical engineer friend once told me that every time you convert one form of energy to another, due to the mechanism(s) involved, you will LOSE efficiences.

You loose energy because of the inefficieny of the energy conversion process - eg. chemical energy to mechanical energy. Different energy conversion process have different efficiencies. But because of the second law of thermodynamics they all result in a loss of energy. There is nothing you can do to prevent that (it takes energy to make energy - nothings free - except the gift of salvation through Jesus Christ).

Your typical gasoline powered car has an efficiency of less than 20%. Look at it like this: You give your car "$100 dollars" of energy and it makes use of less than $20 and throws the rest away (not unlike your teenage kids). Most of this is through wasted heat energy out the engine manifold and tailpipe.

The idea is to improve the energy conversion process so it makes use of more and throws less away. Though not feasible for other reasons, electric cars have an efficiency of 90 to 95%. Meaning they use $95 and throw only $5 to $10 away. And the reason for this is the inefficiencies in the mechanical transimissions, etc. not chemical to mechanical energy conversion.

So, If you burn gasoline to power a generator to create electricity, you are in the red, big time, in the energy efficiency pond.

This is true for the case described. If everyone had their own generators. In general hundreds of power plants are considerably more efficient at converting energy than millions of smaller generators or cars for that matter. The last numbers I saw on power plants were 35% to 40%. Also consider that there are other more efficient and/or cleaner methods of producing electriciy such as burning natural gas, nuclear, hydro, solar and wind.

The concept of an electric car is ludicrous; ...

Very true with the technology available today and probably for years to come. But consider hybrid cars with an efficiency between electic cars and conventional gasoline cars. We significantly improve energy use and reduce emissions. The technology for hybrids is here.

39 posted on 08/23/2003 7:28:27 PM PDT by Down South P.E.
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To: Cobra64
So, If you burn gasoline to power a generator to create electricity, you are in the red, big time, in the energy efficiency pond.

While trivially true, the "best solution" may not be obvious, due the efficiencies involved. While the guy towing the generator is a crank of some sort, diesel electric locomotives have been the most efficient for the last 50 years. Diesel electric submarines are close to 100 year old. The problem is that internal combustion engines only operate efficiently over a narrow range of RPM. Hence the need for transmissions. Diesels also take a long time to change power output and hence offer poor acceleration. DC Electric motors are about as efficient at any speed, and can deliver high starting torque. And no transmission. Also relatively low maintenance costs. Running a diesel to charge a battery to run an electrical motor can make sense if your plant (think locomotive) is large enough to justify the investment.

70 posted on 08/24/2003 9:45:38 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (Uday and Qusay and Idi-ay are ead-day)
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