Judge Moore for President? Religious Conservatives & the Danger of Disrespecting a Popular Icon

22 Aug 03 | xzins

[Servant of the Nine]

His history says that is not so.

He is a true believer. Do not be misled by those who deny the existence of committed true believers.

I don't doubt the existance of true believers, I just doubt Moore is one. Everything about the way he has stage managed this confrontation smells of Elmer Gantry and Jimmy Swaggart.

So9

[NewLand]

Ever since I've been a conservative, I've seen Christian conservatives threaten to take their toys and go home.

Really? Where has this happened? What I recall seeing over the past few years is the 'left-wing' Republicans such as Jeffords, Chafee, etc walking away from The Republican party. How many 'left wing' Republicans voted for Bill Clinton over Bob Dole? Some. Maybe a lot. How many Christian Conservative Republicans voted for Clinton over Dole?

Ronald Reagan set the model for winning swing votes by maintaining the Christian Conservative positions. Nobody has reached the level of popularity and success he had. And it was Reagan who dominated the Southern votes, somewhat true with Nixon in '72, but certainly not Ford in '76...and Reagan captured more overall Democrat votes than any other Republican.

It is the 'left wing' of the Republican party that is both threatening and has already helped shift votes to the Democrats. The assumption that Christian Conservative voters (forget the nationally known personalities) are not in the mainstream of The Republican Party is false.

[Servant of the Nine]

Your posts undergird Islamism fairly well. Or is that just a coincidence?

And if this insult doesn't work, what next, call me a Jew Lover?

If your lowlife scumbag ass is not capable of debating the issues instead of personal invective, then get it on you fascist boot licker.

So9

[xzins]

If it was the only issue he ran on, and he won, then it gives you some idea of the name recognition and esteem he has with religious conservatives.

Have that name recognition run on a national level, and I really think it means an automatic 10% of the vote.

I've heard that the country's religious demographics break down something like: 33% baptistic and/or other independent churches, 25% Roman Catholic, 30% no religious preference, 10% mainline denominations, 5% other religions/atheistic.

[Mo1]

He ran as "The Ten Commandments Judge" That was the only thing he had in his adds when he ran.

Well I don't live in Al and haven't seen his ads .. but if that was the only thing he ran on, instead of his record, then that is wrong

[xzins]

We'll have to wait and see. Sometimes true believers are grifters are indistinguishable to the last minute....unless you happen to have a biography of Moore and can check it for consistency in positions and beliefs over the years.

If I discover he was the president of his local baptist church youth group when he was in high school, then I'm definitely going with 'true believer' until proven otherwise.

[Right Wing Professor]

Ronald Reagan set the model for winning swing votes by maintaining the Christian Conservative positions. Nobody has reached the level of popularity and success he had.

Reagan appointed O Connor, Kennedy and Scalia to the court. O Connor and Kennedy voted with the majority on the infamous 'stare decissis' Casey abortion decision. Kennedy wrote the Texas sodomy decision. Abortion was legal at the beginning of his term, and at the end of his term. He did nothing for school choice. He broke his promise to abolish the Department of Education. In what respect was he any more consistent in a Christian Conservative position than Bush?

[xzins]

You have PRECISELY made my earlier point.

Why should religious conservatives stay with the Republican Party?

California Slogan: "Forget what you believe; just vote Arnold."

The day is fast arriving when Christians will realize they might as well go elsewhere.

[sweet_diane]

"He snuck the stone into the building in the dead of night, because he knew he was in the wrong."

The county seat of Baldwin County Alabama was moved the same way, in the dead of night, to where is still remains in Bay Minette.

I guess that's just how we do things down here.

[Right Wing Professor]

Why should religious conservatives stay with the Republican Party?

Because it's a choice between some influence, or no influence.

[sweet_diane]

"I think he would be a solid vote-getter for one of the smaller conservative parties."

He could be. Will have to see how he handles this situation as it plays out. If he is sincere and solid in his beliefs, who knows.

[xzins]

No returns/results after decades of support = no influence

or

Watching the momentum go opposite you = imaginary influence

[xzins]

If he is sincere and solid in his beliefs, who knows

Precisely.

However, I think if the Supremes heard his issues and ruled on them, that that would be sufficient.

To totally ignore his plea is to push him into the house of your opponent, just so he can save face.

[sinkspur]

If Bush ignores the people who sent him to office much more, in this case by sending federal goons to enforce the arbitrary rulings of a federal judge,

You wish.

Moore's eight associate justices ordered the rock removed, and it will be state law enforcement who will remove it.

Or, more likely, a janitor with a hydraulic lift will store it in a closet.

[Catspaw]

Well, if Moore runs for president on the Constitution Party ticket and he gets 10% of the vote, as you speculate, hello, President Dean.

Moore would become as despised in the Repubican Party as Ralph Nader is for Dems, not that it matters.

[sinkspur]

I believe that Judge Roy Moore poses the single greatest domestic political risk to President Bush's re-election that exists at this moment.

I believe that Judge Roy Moore poses the same threat to the citizens of Alabama and the United States that Huey Long posed to the citizens of Louisiana and the United States 60 years ago.

Only, Moore is much more dangerous: he is a megalomaniacal demagogue who is using God to justify his crusade.

[onedoug]

Very articulate. Thank you.

I believe that America, as the only Juedo-Christian country in the world, is being eaten away by poltical correctness from the inside. And as that religious and cultural iconography falls away, our society becomes riper in that vacuum, for the eventual imposition of sharia by force.

In this sense, yes, I feel your posts undergird Islamism.

[NewLand]

First...your anti-Christian sentiments that you have clearly expressed over time elsewhere on FR hardly qualifies you as an objective 'expert' on Christian Conservative beliefs.

Related to your response on this post, you have totally diverted from your original post about winning votes for the Republican Party, and the effect on winning swing votes by the Christian Conservative positions within the party, and possibly being countered by a move to the 'center' as you said (which, by the way, is toward the direction of The Left).

My reply to you was in direct response to those comments and issues. You have now totally gone off in another direction, totally avoiding the original points made by YOU and me about winning votes for the Republican Party.

Before I debate your comments on this post, I want to challenge something you said..."since becoming a Conservative". I have yet to see you present Conservative positions. Maybe it's just me...maybe not. But I do not recall seeing Conservative credentials from you. Can you 'enlighten' me?

[xzins]

Ralph's people still love Ralph; even Phil Donohue still loves Ralph.

The big difference might be if Moore is a SINCERE, life-long Christian acting on his beliefs.

If so, he will KEEP those who cross over to the "Big XYZ Party." And he will gather new ones.

Seriously, if Howard Brown was able to mobilize the Libertarians on a theme characterized by the as "ignore the rest of the world," then Moore will be able to mobilize troops around their common religion.

[xzins]

I don't know about demagogue, but I'm pretty sure of 'true believer.'

But I think that both he and his supporters will be satisfied if they receive their hearing...even if they lose. They just need to have "their day in court." :>)