Alan Keyes on Hannity and Colmes LIVE THREAD

[Miss Marple]

I have given up caffeine, and I am trying REALLY hard to not lose my temper, since I have a headache.

By the way, are there other groups on-line that do live threads?

[Robert_Paulson2]

this madison?

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"What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy."

Madison objected to state-supported chaplains in Congress and to the exemption of churches from taxation. He wrote:

"Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."

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[mysonsfuture]

President Bush has been VERY SILENT on this! Sad, sad sad. I'm going to the Constitution party.

[VeryUnprogressive]

LOL, took me about 90 seconds, but I pulled it off. GOOD ONE!

[Luis Gonzalez]

By the way, over at Lost Privildeges you claimed that you had "gotten out of Dodge", I took that to mean that you had decided to leave FR.

I guess your fixation on me must keep you coming back for more. It couldn't be that you, being a principled individual and all, where talking out of your a$$ over there, were you?

I do love the fact that you and Freddy help keeping the memory of Darkdrake alive...it's touching really.

Some flowers would be nice.

[rwfromkansas]

Don't do that.

I give Bush a lot more latitude on this than Riley etc. because he is not directly involved in this.

If Bush actually said Moore is defending something that is wrong, than I would get upset.

[visualops]

I watched Dr. Keyes' TV show, and I'd say it was over the heads of many. So is that a problem with the show, or the audience? The people interested in intellectually honest serious debate these days seem few and far between. But, Keyes did pretty well IMHO in 2000 for a rather unknown candidate with considerably less publicity and airtime than the other Republican candidates. In the primaries Keyes was third behind Bush and McCain pretty consistently, ahead of Forbes and Bauer who were given much more serious attention as viable candidates. Out of roughly 20 million Republican primary votes cast nationwide, Keyes garnered over a million of them. Additionally, he only spent $11 million, compared to Forbes $48 million and McCain's $45 million (although granted McCain was in it longer).

[Ben Bolt]

Dont mention it . This is an interesting social study although it is rather predictable .

[Miss Marple]

President Bush has no place in interfering in the operation of the courts. He also has no place in interfering in the operation of the Alabama court.

Things have gone through the proper procedure. If Judge Moore still wishes to make a stand on this, he must do as Martin Luther King and accept that penalties will be the price for disobeying a law with which he does not agree.

What do you expect President Bush to do? Tell the courts how to adjudicate? That is not within his power. Encourge Judge Moore to disobey the law? The President swore an oath to uphold the laws of this land, not to subvert them.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"No, you're Baron Von Munchasen."

Actually, the good Baron may have been one of the characters that eventually settled into playing a toy knight in this forum.

[VeryUnprogressive]

Are you pro-death penalty?
Are you pro-life?
Are you for abolishing the Marxist inspired income tax?

[RLK]

For a person with little talent or inclination.

Ahhhhhhh.... but elected

----------------------------

So were the Clintons, Carter, LBJ, and JFK.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Well, President Clinton would have dictated to Alabama what to do!

[Imal]

THANKS :-)

Great to have you with us!

Here's a little piece of sage advice that has served me well in my time on FR. When a thread gets a little too wild, hear the voice of wisdom:

"Point away from face. Light fuse and get away."

[Robert_Paulson2]

this madison?

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James Madison

"Every new and successful example therefore of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance"
..........James Madison, 1822, Writings, 9:101

"Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States, the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history"
..........James Madison, undated, William and Mary Quarterly, 1946, 3:555

"Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."

"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not."
.........."A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785

"Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
..........."A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785

"The appropriation of funds of the United States for the use and support of religious societies, [is] contrary to the article of the Constitution which declares that 'Congress shall make no law respecting a religious establishment'"
..........James Madison, 1811, Writings, 8:133

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Madison did NOT support government in religion or religion in government. Patrick did. And using patrick's quote to imply that the founders as a whole believed in joining them in any way, would be dishonest deception...

The "religion in government," stone monolith worshippers use quotes like patrick's OUTof context, and ignore the fact that his bill to join religion and government was defeated by the "founders" present in Virginia at the time...

That was my point.
and Monroe's
Virginia REJECTED the joining of religion and state.

Monroe always appealed to a UNIVERSAL God, not the religion specific, JUDEO-Christian one...



t

[ZULU]

Keyes is GREAT!!!

HE should be in the White House!!

He'd fight for God in public life and to keep the government's hands off our shooting irons!!!

[Chancellor Palpatine]

Lemme guess - you teach it at some nonaccredited churchy school, right?

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Yes, but knowing Keyes, he has his own detailed opinion of each. I wouls not say on the surface I agree with him on any of these; although I am a 'yes' on those issues. Even Reno was for the death penalty. Well, not including Waco. So I would have to delve a little deeper before I said yes in a way that aligned me with agreeing with Keyes.

[Robert_Paulson2]

little green footballs is fun

[mysonsfuture]

I expect the President to stand on the side of the ten commandments! He has the power to pardon Judge Moore and has the bully pulpit to stand up for the true meaning of the Constitution. He needs to go to the courthouse steps in Montgomery and declare his intention to immediatey use the power of his office to appoint 100 or so conservative recess judicial appointments across America which will stand for the principles of the Founders.