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To: commonerX
If you define Communism, Socialism, Nazism, etc. as 'religions', you've more of less expanded the term religion to meaninglessness, to 'any set of beliefs'.
Thus "most wars are wars over religious differences" are "wars over differences in beliefs" well - duh - and yet Attila the Hun and Ghengis Khan didnt terrorize and kill for ideas, they did it for - POWER.

Almost all wars are and were about POWER.

The point is that secular belief systems and ideologies of Communism, Socialism, Fascism, and the many modern "isms" are far more bloody than traditional religions. The other point is that in ALL cases, they rejected the limits of traditional morality and the view of traditional religions that put man as a repsonsible and unique individual created by God. The main crime of the "isms" is rooted in their REJECTION of the individual and making man subservient to the State. NO traditional religion does this in the manner that Fascism and Communism do. It's the result of that belief that created the bloodiness of Collectivist ideology.

We've fought wars against colllectivism because we was the POWER to reside in the individual, in democratic rule, and not in a collectivist dictatorship.

As for blaming religions, that's just ignorant prejudice against the old:
Only Islam comes close historically in terms of bloodiness (eg India, Persia, Balkans, etc.) but that is over centuries, and is a consequence of Islam's use of the "Jihad" concept. Yet Islam, unlike he modern "isms" had times of great toleration and advance. Islam is not today and has rarely been as oppressive and cruel as say Maoist Communism.

And trash the flaws of Christian rule, but it gave rise to Western civilization, science, philosophy and all our modern way of life. Only Christian cultures were able to advance as much because of the foundations of Greek philosophy and Christian faith.

You can even go back to the French revolution to see the roots of modern blooody-mindedness. The Guillotine was the first Enforcer of Modern Political Correctness.


990 posted on 08/22/2003 11:23:36 AM PDT by WOSG
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To: WOSG
This is an arguement that can not be provin one way or another. My main point is that people of history used religion to justify the murder and killing of people that didn't believe in the same.

I will contend that most wars were fought over power by the rulers in charge, but what was the motivation for the masses to accept this or that war. In many of these cases they used religious diference as a reason.
1,028 posted on 08/22/2003 12:00:07 PM PDT by commonerX
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To: WOSG
"If you define Communism, Socialism, Nazism, etc. as 'religions', you've more of less expanded the term religion to meaninglessness, to 'any set of beliefs'."

Communism, Socialism, Nazism are types of governments, they can still have a religious base upon where they draw there decissions.

The Difinition of Religion via Websters:
Reverence for the gods, holiness, in a system of religious belief.

A belief in a devine or supernatural power or powers to be obeyed and worshiped as the creator(s) and ruler(s)of the universe. Expression of such belief in conduct and ritual.

Any specific system of belief and worship, often invovling a code of ethics and a philosophy.

Any system of beliefs, practices, ethical values, etc. resembling, suggestive of, or likened to such a system.

The state or way of life of a person in a monastary, convent, etc.

Any object of conscientious regard and pursuit.


1,045 posted on 08/22/2003 12:31:56 PM PDT by commonerX
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