LBJ was behind JFK's assassination, upcoming book contends

Knight Ridder Newspapers ^ | Aug. 20, 2003 | HYE JEONG

[Little Ray]

Jackie had him done for all the pain and embarrassment JFK caused her.

[Tares]

The Warren Commission caught Marina in several lies ...

What lies did the Warren Commission catch Marina making?

She admitted lying about certain things...

What did she admit to lying about? Please post a link quoting her admission.

[Little Ray]

Actually gold foil is better, but a bit expensive :).

[Tares]

Tares: If Oswald didn't kill Tippit, but he was captured 30 minutes later with the gun that was used to kill Tippit, and the police didn't plant it, how did Oswald end up with the murder weapon?

justshutupandtakeit: Any "evidence" in this case is suspect. I believe very little of it can be relied upon.

Did the Dallas police plant false evidence on Oswald to make it look like he killed Officer Tippit?

[Shooter 2.5]

It is not totally obscured though the blast of blood, brains etc. certainly make it difficult to see through it.

So you admit the blood, brains etc. appear at neck level to Jackie in frame 313?

A simple Yes or no answer will suffice.

[justshutupandtakeit]

A simple yes or no will NOT suffice. There is a cloud of matter which extends about a foot or so in diameter, some of which is above the head, some below. A shot from a steep angle above and behind would have blown almost everything further down into the car. There would have been nothing blown back and out of the car to hit the motorcycle police man had that shot come from the rear.

[justshutupandtakeit]

Did "Oswald" carry two wallets or did the killer of Tippett leave one at his killing to incriminate LHO?

I do not believe Oswald had a gun planted on him by police. I do believe he was in the movie theater to meet someone and his actions led other patrons to believe he was searching for someone. He sits next to one guy, gets up, sits next to another guy, gets up and moves again. Who was he looking for?

Since the FBI, even before the assassination, had issued warnings about someone using LHO's identification and there is plentious evidence indicating there were people impersonating him in a negative manner, it cannot be ruled out that there were two "Oswald's". As Sylvia Odio AND HER SISTER testified someone was trying to paint a picture of him as a violence-prone sharpshooter.

[A Broken Glass Republican]

Sigh...

Oswald acted alone. And I say that even IF they try to pin it on a rat.

[justshutupandtakeit]

I have quoted from a letter she wrote to the ARRB 9/96 where she denied LHO killed Kennedy. Thus, she lied when she told the WC he had. Letter can be found at http://www.jfk-info.com/mar09.htm

Evidence of Marina's ability to write English before the assassination is abundant in the National Archives, dozens of examples, on photo backs, recipes, a notebook. Thus, she lied when she told the WC that she spoke little English because Oswald did not want her speaking English so he could practice his Russian. Jim Martin (her "manager") claimed she spoke English "quite well" as did Muhamed Reggab ( a student she dated in USSR) and Robert Webster (another "defector" she managed somehow to meet) thus it would appear that her claim to the WC of not being to speak much English was false.

WC staff attorney Bert Griffin called her a liar. Analysts compared her testimony before the WC, FBI agents and the HSCA and created a 29 page report listing dozens of unexplained contradictions from her.

[Shooter 2.5]

I figured you couldn't answer a simple question.

I don't know where you invented this steep angle B.S. Oswald would have to have been 88 yards over Kennedy to be a 45 degree angle.

At least you mentioned there is nothing to the rear which any gun owner would recognize as a frontal shot. Take the information to any gunshop and ask them for verification.

And yes, what goes up must come down. Even if the debris is also moving eleven miles an hour.

[Tares]

Did "Oswald" carry two wallets or did the killer of Tippett leave one at his killing to incriminate LHO?

There is no record of the Dallas police finding Oswald's wallet at the murder scene. The Dallas police claim they found Oswald's wallet on Oswald while they were transporting him from the movie theater to police headquarters. Were the Dallas police lying when they said they found the wallet on Oswald on the way to headquarters?

I do believe he was in the movie theater to meet someone and his actions led other patrons to believe he was searching for someone. He sits next to one guy, gets up, sits next to another guy, gets up and moves again. Who was he looking for?

According to these other patrons, what time did Oswald enter the theater?

Since the FBI, even before the assassination, had issued warnings about someone using LHO's identification...

What evidence is there that this is true?

[Tares]

I have quoted from a letter she wrote to the ARRB 9/96 where she denied LHO killed Kennedy. Thus, she lied when she told the WC he had. Letter can be found at http://www.jfk-info.com/mar09.htm

From the letter:

When I came to this country I came as a friend. I was then and am now. When the assassination happened I believed it was my obligation--anybody's obligation--to abide by the law of this land. I testified to the Warren Commission and I obliged any request the government made of me.I agreed with the findings of the Warren Commission not because I really understood everything about it, but because I had enough trust that they investigated honestly and that the conclusions they came to were based on the highest form of investigation. So, with my blind faith, I accepted their conclusions. Of course, at that time lots of people in this country who knew more about what was going on questioned the findings of the commission. And I defended the commission against those people, and I wanted all those so-called conspiracy people to just go away. Then there was a second investigation because the people demanded it. This was the investigation of the U.S. House Select Committee. And I testified for them. And their conclusion was possible conspiracy, meaning that the assassination involved more than one person, and they stopped it at that. Even then, I wasn't very pleased. I wasn't very pleased because when I was testifying for them and I thought they were honest--after so many years, and because the people demanded it--I asked them questions that would be answered just for me, and I was told that I was there only to answer questions, not to ask them. So I knew that that investigation was doomed.

And how can I respect the conclusions of the House Select Committee, when they locked up their records?

I gave the two investigations everything I had. Then later I found out that the FBI knew more about me than I knew about myself.

Literally, even my underwear was investigated. And I have no problem--they didn't have to trust me, why should they? I don't hold anything against that. But my private matters were investigated--even when they had all the proof that I was nobody's "spy"--and I feel that this was FOR BLACKMAIL--my house was bugged, and I saw pictures of me which I knew nobody but the FBI could have done. I've seen with my own eyes that any kind of gossip from people even re motely related to me by name in Russia -- any kind of nonsense -- is in the record. You cannot be more thorough than that. And even so, I don't object. But now I think, it's my turn to ask the questions and for the FBI to clean their own laundry. I don't want to know everything about the FBI, but since they claim that I am wife of the assassin, and I have to defend myself , only in that regard am I sticking my nose in their business. And I'm not begging for answers. I think I've earned them, and I think they should give them to me.

Do you contend the above is an admission by Marina that her testimony was false?

Evidence of Marina's ability to write English before the assassination is abundant in the National Archives, dozens of examples, on photo backs, recipes, a notebook. Thus, she lied when she told the WC that she spoke little English because Oswald did not want her speaking English so he could practice his Russian. Jim Martin (her "manager") claimed she spoke English "quite well" as did Muhamed Reggab ( a student she dated in USSR) and Robert Webster (another "defector" she managed somehow to meet) thus it would appear that her claim to the WC of not being to speak much English was false.

WC staff attorney Bert Griffin called her a liar. Analysts compared her testimony before the WC, FBI agents and the HSCA and created a 29 page report listing dozens of unexplained contradictions from her.

So, based on the above, you believe that Marina Oswald was lying when she testified (post 489) about Oswald trying to kill General Walker?

[justshutupandtakeit]

You neglected the statement she made in the same letter contradicting what she told the Commission. Why? "I definitely think that Lee Oswald did NOT KILL President Kennedy, I think he was given up to pacify people as a pasty." That is as direct a contradiction as one can have of the testimony given the WC and HSCA.

Yes, I think she was lying when she claimed Lee shot at Walker. Her first statement about this was on 12/3/63 after publication by a West German newspaper that there might be a connection between the JFK killing and the Walker shooting. The German story was determined by the WC as "fabricated by the editor." This did not stop them from spreading it, however. Ruth Paine's testimony about the incriminating note from "Oswald" raises the suspicion that it was planted.
Her house had been throughly searched and nothing like it was found.

However, the most damaging evidence against this tale is that the bullet found at Walker's was a 30-06 not a 6.5 millimeter for the MC.

[leprechaun9]

This was the theme of a play "MacBird" that played at the Village Voice in New York, a few years after the killing!

The City of New York made several attempts to close down the theatre (through the use of building inspectors, fire marshalls, etc.), but were unsuccessful!

[justshutupandtakeit]

A wallet containing IDs for LHO and Alex Hidell was found at the Tippet murder scene and photographed by WFAA-TV and remembered by FBI Special Agent James Hosty. You tell me who is lying?

Later at the Theater police removed a wallet from LHO's pocket with same IDs. He entered the Theater about 1 o'clock, before Tippet was shot. But there is considerable doubt about this since he got home about 1 according to some. Are we speaking AGAIN of more than one Oswald?

Hoover thought it was true and had issued a warning memo to his agents to be alert about a double Oswald. But that is only one of MANY instances of duplicate Oswalds.

[justshutupandtakeit]

I misread one of your earlier posts to say 88 ft rather than 88 yards for the shots so I have miscalculated the angle. It is 20 to 25 degrees rather than about 45. I apologize for the mistake.

Debris from JFK's head would have been blasted forward at an even greater speed and flatter line from the lesser angle, however, making the likelihood of splatter back even LESS likely.

All this is quite interesting but essentially irrelevent since there has never been any evidence I have seen linking LHO to the rifle.
1) the money order used to pay for it was drawn while LHO was at work. Who drew the money order?
2) no one other than LHO was authorized to receive mail at the PO Box. Alex Hidell was NOT authorized to receive mail there.
3) the gun was ordered by Alex Hidell.
4) No one at the PO box could recall Oswald picking up ANY large package at the PO.
5) No one at the PO Box could recall Oswald picking up a rifle mailed to the box.
6) CONTRARY TO YOUR EARLIER CLAIM, no ammunition was ordered with the rifle from Kleins. WHERE did LHO/Hidell get the MC ammo? It was VERY unusual according to gunsmiths, not readily available.
7) the ammo would have been over twenty yrs. old and was poor to begin with according to experts.
8) Hidell ordered a 36" long gun. The MC found at the TBD was 40" long. NOT THE SAME GUN.
9) A gunsmith at the Aberdeen Proving Ground examined the MC and reported that the sight had been aligned as if for a left-handed person. Oswald was right handed.
10) Sharpshooters for the MC test found the bolt so difficult to operate that it skewed their aim. They also found it to have an odd trigger pull.
11) the sight was so unrelated to the rifle's line of fire, and so inexpertly attached , that IT COULD NOT EVEN BE ADJUSTED.
12) Witnesses described two shots coming almost simultaneously or even from an automatic weapon. This was impossible with the old hunk of junk purchased through Kleins. The rifle found had an worn and rusty firing pin.
13) Experts were initially reluctant to even test fire this weapon because it had a nasty habit of blowing the firing pin out into the face of the shooter. They also had trouble opening the bolt.
14) There were no fibers from the clothes Oswald wore to work on the rifle. Fibers from the shirt Oswald was wearing when arrested WERE found on the rifle indicating the frame-up was in full sway as evidence was tampered with and created by rubbing the shirt he was wearing on the gun. But it was the WRONG SHIRT.
15) This gun was part of a shipment of DEFECTIVE weapons available in lots of 25 for $3.00 each. Compare to Savage 99F at $121.50, Browning Mauser .30-06 $164.50, Winchester 70.300 caliber $134.95. This gun was TOTAL JUNK.

[justshutupandtakeit]

Comments on above?

[Tares]

You neglected the statement she made in the same letter contradicting what she told the Commission. Why? "I definitely think that Lee Oswald did NOT KILL President Kennedy, I think he was given up to pacify people as a pasty." That is as direct a contradiction as one can have of the testimony given the WC and HSCA.

So her opinion changed, big whoop. Her opinion changed, but she did not retract her testimony about factual events, including Oswald's attempted murder of General Walker.

Yes, I think she was lying when she claimed Lee shot at Walker.

If she did, she continues to lie about it to this day. Why does she continue to lie about this? Is she a willing or unwilling participant in the lying about Oswald's attempt to kill General Walker?

Ruth Paine's testimony about the incriminating note from "Oswald" raises the suspicion that it was planted. Her house had been throughly searched and nothing like it was found.

From the WC Report:

On December 2, 1963, Mrs. Ruth Paine turned over to the police some of the Oswalds' belongings, including a Russian volume entitled "Book of Useful Advice." 704, In this book was an undated note written in Russian. In translation, the note read as follows...

Text of note omitted for brevity.

James C. Cadigan, FBI handwriting expert, testified that this note was written by Lee Harvey Oswald. Prior to the Walker shooting on April 10, Oswald had been attending typing classes on Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday evenings. He had quit these classes at least a week before the shooting, which occurred on a Wednesday night. According to Marina Oswald's testimony, on the night of the Walker shooting, her husband left their apartment on Neely Street shortly after dinner. She thought he was attending a class or was on his own business." When he failed to return by 10 or 10:30 p.m., Marina Oswald went to his room and discovered the note. She testified: "When he came back I asked him what had happened. He was very pale. I don't remember the exact time, but it was very late. And he told me not to ask him any questions. He only told me he had shot at General Walker." Oswald told his wife that he did not know whether he had hit Walker; according to Marina Oswald when he learned on the radio and in the newspapers the next day that he had missed, he said that he "was very sorry that he had not hit him." Marina Oswald's testimony was fully supported by the note itself which appeared to be the work of a man expecting to be killed, or imprisoned, or to disappear.

Marina Oswald testified she remembers the note. So if the note was planted, whoever planted the note was also able to get Marina Oswald to lie about the note. Did Ruth Paine play a role in the planting of this note? If so, how do you know?

However, the most damaging evidence against this tale is that the bullet found at Walker's was a 30-06 not a 6.5 millimeter for the MC.

What evidence supports this statement?

[Luke21]

The slimeball did King and Bobby too. I just know it.

[Tares]

A wallet containing IDs for LHO and Alex Hidell was found at the Tippet murder scene and photographed by WFAA-TV and remembered by FBI Special Agent James Hosty. You tell me who is lying?

If this wallet was found at the scene, why is it not found among the items of evidence?

Later at the Theater police removed a wallet from LHO's pocket with same IDs. He entered the Theater about 1 o'clock, before Tippet was shot. But there is considerable doubt about this since he got home about 1 according to some. Are we speaking AGAIN of more than one Oswald?

Which is it? Was Oswald at his rooming house at 1pm, or was he at the theater? Or were there two "Oswalds" at the theater, an imposter at 1pm, talking to patrons, and the real Oswald, who was at his rooming house at 1pm and entered the theater without paying at about 1:45pm and arrested by Dallas Police? Or was the taxi driver lying and was the housekeeper at Oswald's rooming house lying when she said she saw Oswald at 1pm?