[MayDay72]

goldstategop: Any one who thinks the welfare state is going to disappear is dreaming.

MayDay72: ...Then I am a 'dreamer'...And I don't think that is a bad thing...

gs: The aim of conservatives should be to use it to promote conservative ends.

MD: ...As I've said to 'eleni121' above, I don't see how negative forceful/coercive actions of the state can achieve positive results...Or why you would prefer welfare statism when when private/voluntary [i.e. free-market] institutions [churches, private schools, charities] can do these things more efficiently and fairly...

gs: There are proposals from various think tanks to suggest the best means of making sure social policy promotes less dependence on government, favors marriage, strengthens the family, and provides a path for the poor and the elderly to have choices in how they get basic needs fulfilled.

MD: ...See my last statement...These are all worthy goals but the state is a poor tool for this task...We are talking about the same government that runs Amtrak, the postal service, the DMV and the IRS...Do you trust these guy to teach your children about 'family values' or care for your elderly mother?

gs: In other words, conservatives don't think a liberal welfare state which is top down with a one size fits all model works. We need a different approach in which there are other ways of developing the right social policy than through a centralized government bureaucracy.

MD: ...It seems to me that we a have an 'different approach' that is 'bottom up' rather than 'top down'...And has multiple solutions to every problem rather than 'one size fits all'...Adam Smith wrote about it 200 years ago, though it is much older than that...The free-market...

[goldstategop]

We don't really disagree about the objectives. Though people can differ on how best to achieve them.

[GOPcapitalist]

These are all worthy goals but the state is a poor tool for this task

You got that one nailed down. The state is a veritable Ring of Gyges - it's extremely powerful and makes its users capable of many things, but it also corrupts and ruins even the noblest of participants in the process and will never reach efficiency as a result.