Schwarzenegger's liberal views leave GOP flummoxed; pro-choice, pro-gun control and pro-gay rights

San Francisco Chronicle ^ | 08-14-03

[Hildy]

You have no idea that he's not going to cut anything. I believe he's going to cut. There's NO OTHER WAY to get out of this mess.

[hosepipe]

Arnold is Wery, Wery confused...- Elmer Fudd

[Dave S]

But Buffet has been hired as "Chief Economic Advisor", and if he has influence over ALL economic policy

Buffet may have the title (may have been necessary to get Buffet on board), but like all good leaders, Arnold is his own Chief Economic Advisor.

[Afronaut]

"That which is about to fall, deserves to be pushed" -- Frederich Nietzsche

[Dave S]

Some people who call themselves republicans would vote for Hillary Clinton if she changed parties and nothing else!

I see your point but I think you went a bit too far. The pope and Billy Graham could both tell me that Hillary is the Messiah and even if she could walk on water, I wouldnt vote for her, Republican or not.

[Zack Nguyen]

But try to tell any of the "Arnold is the best we have" crowd this, and you are given all sorts of asinine reasons as to why you are wrong.

I am afraid that a lot of good conservatives are going to be gritting their teeth on what Governor Schwarzneggar is signing/vetoing a year from now. And they might be unpleasantly surprised to learn that their anti-tax, pro-life, pro-family philosophy is met with closed doors and looooong waits at the Governor's Mansion.

[ImpeachandRemove]

I simply expect Buffett to look at California like the business enterprises he has managed and invested in. Cal government is wildly bloated and expenses exceed income. Every business facing this situation goes through a belt-tightening with layoffs and cuts in non-essential expenditures.

[reagan_fanatic]

LOL!

This would make a great campaign poster for Ahhnold, wouldn't it?

[unspun]

Wake up California conservatives. Dump Ahnold. This vote will go GOP. (I.e. PERIOD!!) Just take your pick! (I mean, take YOUR PICK.) Is that understandable, or does it need to be spelled out further?

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Savvy Dems realize this upcoming recall election is a win-win for them. Even if Arnold wins, their agenda remains secure. And the agenda is far more important than the symbology.

You are EXACTLY correct. Arnold is no different than Davis.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Well said!

[Zack Nguyen]

Thanks!

[William Tell]

Impeach the Boy said: "First, when the 6th largest economy in the world goes down, it will HURT this nation..."

I would like very much to hear details of the harm you envision. In the business world, when an unhealthy business goes bankrupt, it helps the remaining healthy ones. Why would the remaining 49 states not benefit greatly from seeing the consequences of such mismanagement? Why is it so unthinkable that a state of the Union become insolvent? I don't see it having a substantial impact on me. Why would it?

It is not the economy of Kalifornia that is going bankrupt, it is the government.

[Moby Grape]

Billy, if you REALLY believe that the US government (thus the taxpayers coast to coast) will not assist California with BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of dollars to bail them out, then I have some beach property in Arizonia with YOUR name on it....In fact, we would HAVE to help bail them out, as we HAD to bail out Chrysler some years ago because the ripple effects to the economy as a whole would have been drastic, and California is a hell of lot bigger than Chrysler....we also had to help bail out New York once....you are living in a dream world if you think that the Congress will sit back and say, "Tough, you idiots got yourselves into this, now we are going to just sit here while millions a laid off, companies go under, social services are halted, and millions are added to the welfare rolls.

[William Tell]

Impeach the Boy said: "...we also had to help bail out New York once ..."

Chrysler should have been allowed to fail. Then the other auto companies would have had greater understanding that their decisions have consequences.

As for New York, you will have to remind me of the nature of the federal bailout. I remember the joke "will the last person to leave NY please turn out the lights".

Perhaps it was on another thread that I described the bankruptcy scenario I expect. Various courts will decide where the $60 billion dollars in revenue that we do have will go. Our budget, even under the circumstances of a court controlled bankruptcy, will still exceed probably any other state.

Let's say that you are correct. Are you suggesting that the feds are going to just provide $38 billion dollars? Will this include money to subsidize sex change operations as mandated by San Francisco? Will it include money to pay off unauthorized "deficit" bonds? Will it include money to help businesses permit "family leave" for up to ten weeks or whatever it is that Kalifornia is mandating?

There is nothing wrong with Kalifornia except that it is expecting to spend more money than it has, more money than it should, and more money than prudent people will allow.

There is also no solution to Kalifornia's problems which does not include massive reductions in spending. Federal intervention may delay the inevitable, but you can't get milk and steak from the same cow.

I can't even imagine how the Feds would provide some kind of aid. Could you describe what that would look like? Would Congress vote on it? Would it be an outright gift to Kalifornia that Wyoming, Texas, and Tennessee would have to help repay? Would it simply be tacked on to the national debt? And how much will they send next year? Will it be any amount Bustamonte cares to name or will there be a limit?

I don't see Federal intervention at all. The only reason to expect massive layoffs is among public workers. If the teachers want to leave the Coastal Commission in place, then more teachers will be laid off. If the teachers want to permit prison guards to retire at 50 with 90 percent pay, then more teachers will be laid off.

I recently retired from an international company whose sales are only half from the US. They are already burdened by high expenses for workers comp and family leave. As long as no new taxes are passed, they can continue their business here but new jobs will probably not be created here. It just wouldn't make business sense.

[Kevin Curry]

In the business world, when an unhealthy business goes bankrupt, it helps the remaining healthy ones.

?

When a large, unhealthy business goes bankrupt, it almost always causes a host of otherwise healthy businesses to become unhealthy or go bankrupt. When a large business can't or doesn't pay its bills, interrelated businesses get caught in a cash crunch and are unable to pay their bills, and so on. The ripple effect causes damage far in excess of the damage suffered by the original bankrupt.

[William Tell]

Kevin Curry said: When a large, unhealthy business goes bankrupt, it almost always causes a host of otherwise healthy businesses to become unhealthy or go bankrupt. When a large business can't or doesn't pay its bills, interrelated businesses get caught in a cash crunch and are unable to pay their bills, and so on. The ripple effect causes damage far in excess of the damage suffered by the original bankrupt.

I tried to write a reply to this but I decided that our philosophical differences seemed to large to cope with. I decided to check your personal page to see if it might provide a hint as to what your attitudes are. I found this:

This same root stock produced the seductive poison fruit of Ayn Rand. Read "Atlas Shrugged" or "The Fountainhead." Both works sneer at the supposed worthlessness of the ordinary man. Ayn Rand's Ubermensch alone are worth the breath they draw. They are demigods on whom the whole sad mass of lumpen humanity depends. The threat is everpresent in her "objectivist" works that the little people, unchecked, will destroy all that is good and noble. Ayn Rand was as elitist as Adolph Hitler in her archtypal purity rants.

Now I see that we, indeed, inhabit totally different philosophical worlds. I am looking forward to leaving Kalifornia. Based on your statements, I might think that you are staying or moving here.

You also state "Marxism didn't kill a soul." By that I hope you mean that you will not threaten to kill me if I try to leave, as has been done by the Soviet Union, East Germany, China, North Korea, and Cuba.

[Moby Grape]

Bill said, "Chrysler should have been allowed to fail."....You MAKE my point. They were NOT allowed to, regardles of your opinion, or mine, of the merit of saving them. Theories and senarios are of little value. What is useful is an understanding of politics in this nation, and history. History says that if California defaults, the Congress will bail them out.

I agree with you 100% that only CUTS in spending will put California on the road to health, but my point is that Arnold won't do it, thus making the day of judgment (whenever it might be) assured. And you are right about California government workers being those who would face layoffs, etc. during an ecomonic crises, which brings us back to the POLITICAL element of a bail out.

California citizens (tax payers) are fleeing California in record numbers (so the tax base is erroding). Corporations, likewise are fleeing. Without tax relief (and regualtion relief), buisnesses will not return to California.

It is my view (although I hope to be proven wrong), that Arnold will not have the stomach, or even the inclination, to CUT TAXES, CUT SPENDING, stop handouts to illegals, and eliminate over-the-top enviornmental restrictions. What he has said on record, and those he has chosen to advise him (Buffett for example), do not send assurance my way of him being the one who will take the bull by the horns.

[kidd]

There is not a bit of difference in the abilities, qualifications and opinions between Schwarzenegger and Steven Speilberg.

The only difference is in what they have claimed. Schwarzenegger claims to be a fiscally conservative Republican, but has not demonstrated it - and his plans are quite liberal. Steven Speilberg has simply not made any claims.

Question to Freepers: Would you vote for Steven Speilberg if he claimed he was a Republican?

[William Tell]

Impeach the Boy said: "History says that if California defaults, the Congress will bail them out. "

Please remind me of the history regarding bailout for NY. I certainly remember their whining but it would be helpful to consider what federal aid was supplied and how that might apply to Kalifornia.