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To: Sam Cree
I don't mean to argue with you here, but I would like to point out that the theory of evolution is not intended to provide moral standards.

I understand its intent. However, moral deductions can and have been made by evolutionists based upon the theory. If this world has not been designed and we all evolved from molten lava which was created when nothing exploded, then the value of a human life is no greater than that of the value of sewer sludge. There is absolutely NO basis for saying that humans have more value than anything else, nor, if you take Darwin's book itself there is no basis for saying that the races are equal. As a result, you have had Adolf Hitler, a rabid evolutionist, who viewed Norwegians as the purest of pure blood Aryans while blacks were almost pure ape and Jews were pure ape and quite expendable. You have your Kip Kinkle's who deify hatred because there is no basis for morality in the evolutionist world he has been raised in. One of the Columbine kids was wearing a t-shirt on that day that said "natural selection." One of the kids he shot was shot because he was black and considered an inferior polutant of the human race. There are many more examples of how an athiestic-evolutionary point of view has led to absolutely atrocious ideologies which are either acted upon or not. And why not? If evolution is true, then there is no basis for moral law. Period. Oh, folks can get together and say "we don't like murder (can't say it is right or wrong, just that they don't like it) so we are going to agree to punish those who do so." The majority can get together and agree that in their lives, murder is wrong. They can not, however, impose that view on another majority of folks half-way across the world that likes cannibalism. There is absolutely no moral basis in evolutionary theory to say anything is right or wrong, and the fact that evolution has led to a society that does not believe in absolutes of any kind (and believes that absolutely, which is another story altogether) is evidenced by the Hitlers, Stalins, Mussolinis, Maos, Klebold's and Ted Turners of the world.

I mean seriously. How can anyone say Hitler was wrong in a world that evolved by chance? He had a theory of how evolution worked, and being the fittest, he decided to rid the earth of what he considered to be weaker races.

Now, you may say, well the Christians have the Crusades and the Inquisition so its clear that Christianity has brought about some attrocities too. I would say that the Inquisition was not at all based upon Christianity, but more on politics and the desire to protect an institution by the Queen of Spain and her Roman Catholic cohorts. Biblical principles (upon which true Christianity is based) were not utilized during the inquisition, and you can't use guilt by association as a broadbrush to convict Christianity of hate crimes. Second, the Crusades began as a self defense against the rapid advance of the religion of peace, Islam, into Europe. Muslims had been slaughtering Christians. The political powers of the time used the cross as a banner to rally crusaders to go against the Muslims, and the Crusaders prevailed (at least for a time. Now the Muslims are back and are taking over Europe without a whimper). There is nothing in New Testament theology, upon which Christianity is based, that would support killing others for one's faith. Nothing. It can't even be inferred from the New Testament. Rather, just the opposite is taught. So, practicing Christians can't be tagged with that one either.

The evolutionary hypothesis has not happened within a vacuum. You can't teach something and expect for it not to bear ideological fruit that affects everyday life- particularly when you teach it with the fervor that evolution has been taught. Some have drawn some rather heinous conclusions based upon evolutionary thinking. And, unfortunately, they are not at all inconsistent in their conclusions. If there is no God who created us in His image and provided laws for us, then there is no value in life and there is no basis for law, only opinion. What a scary world to live in.
167 posted on 08/15/2003 9:01:37 AM PDT by DittoJed2
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To: DittoJed2
I see, so since Evolution has been used for BAD things, things that it was never meant to be used for, we should get rid of it.

Even if it is the BEST scientific theory to explain the available scientific evidence?

Oh, so you're for gun control as well? I mean they are dangerous, and are used for bad things too, so maybe we ought to outlaw guns? Perhaps we should also outlaw computers, I mean people use computers for immoral purposes, child porn, terrorism etc, perhaps we should get rid of computers as well?

Come on, evolution is NOTHING more then a scientific Theory, if someone makes use of it for some social experimentation, which of course the theory NEVER claims to have ANY answers for, then it is the person that came up with such a felacious idea, that has the responsibility.

Evolution is a theory, a tool, a SCIENTIFIC tool, NOTHING more, it should be and is taught in the science classroom, as it should be. Everyone should understand the theory, so that they will understand how science works.

But to say that evolution somehow is to blame for Hitlers ideas, or the idea of communism etc is ridiculous and shows a very shallow mind.

Conservatives, I thought, believed in PERSONAL responsibilty, I know that I do, so if you ACTUALLY are a conservative, to say that evolution is somehow to blame for such stupidity is hypocritical in the extreme.

Also, to say that the Public school system is somehow responsible for giving children their moral compass is ridiculous. It is the PARENTS responsibility to give that to their children BEFORE they even get into the public school system.

It is the parents responsibility to give their children their moral compass, NOT the public schools, shall I say that again?

If you feel that somehow evolution is going to change the attitude of a child, change their moral compass, etc, then I believe it is the parents failure, NOT the schools.

The schools responsibility is to TEACH children, give them knowledge that they will need in the future, NOTHING more.

It used to be that the schools were for teaching children how to think, but that I am afraid is NO longer true.

Anyway, Science and scientific theories should be taught in school, evolution, astronomy, geology, etc, etc, they should get a small taste of each discipline so that they at least have an inkling of what science is about.

But to say that Evolution will turn these moral little creatures into Amoral monsters is taking the reponsibility away from the parents and laying it at the schools and evolutions feet, when it should be EXACTLY the opposite.

It is the PARENTS responsibility to teach their children to be moral.

Personal responsibility, a conservative tenet that you seem to have forgotten.
172 posted on 08/15/2003 9:32:13 AM PDT by Aric2000 (If the history of science shows us anything, it is that we get nowhere by labeling our ignorance god)
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To: DittoJed2
"If evolution is true, then there is no basis for moral law."

I don't see how that necessarily follows. In fact, I think it shortchanges the human capacity for kindness, goodness, even greatness, whether that capacity be God given or otherwise.

And it doesn't really address the validity of the theory.

"How can anyone say Hitler was wrong in a world that evolved by chance?"

IMO, if Hitler and others have used the theory of evolution to justify atrocities, it is because they assigned a moral code to the theory that in actuality is not a part of it.

I personally don't have any trouble knowing that Hitler was wrong, whether or not we "evolved by chance." I know it intuitively, in my bones, because I have a conscience. If somehow I became convinced that there is no God, I would still know it. Perhaps others, if they didn't believe in God, would ignore morality, thinking that there was no higher authority around to punish them. But that wouldn't, IMO, mean that there was no difference between right and wrong.

BTW, I have no problem with the Crusades, or most of what I consider to be Christian teaching, for that matter.

182 posted on 08/15/2003 10:15:27 AM PDT by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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