U.S. Offshore Outsourcing Leads to Structural Changes and Big Impact

cio.com ^ | August 13, 2003 | Diane Morello

[taxed2death]

Don't bother learning a trade. In my state in the N.E., all entry level trade positions in Heating / HVAC, Plumbing, Carpentry (framing, sheet-rocking, trim), auto body repair, automotive repair.....are being over run by illegal trespassers. The legit landscaping businesses in my state have been decimated by truckloads of beaners with an army of push mowers. Fifty feet away from me is a body shop with a half a dozen illegals working for the owner. When I talk to young kids who graduate from trade high chools, they all tell me the same thing, they cant get jobs in their chosen trades. All the jobs are glommed up by illegals.

Now, if you try to follow the law and hire American citizens, you'll simply be priced out of business. If you think this can't or won't happen in your state, you're dead wrong. Are these the people we want to give a guest worker card to? Are these the people we want to give "amnesty" in the new bill Kolbe and Mcain are pushing for?

Something seems wrong when American kids can't get jobs in their chosen trades and illegals are still swarming over our borders (between 4000 -6000 every 24 hours).

Yup, El Presedente' Jorge Bush is my man.

NOT.

[taxed2death]

...regarding post 45....very well put.

[Alas Babylon!]

Bump for later!

[Those_Crazy_Liberals]

"Hurry the sheep are heading over the cliff. Yes that's GWB leading the way."

You say a lot of evil things about our President. I think you need to be held accountable for running your mouth and making these insulting, outragous claims. Like President Bush said, you're either with us or against us. I can only presume you're an enemy of this nation.

[RogueIsland]

But they could, and it would sound pretty reasonable to a right-leaning IT worker, wouldn't it? It might sound pretty good to a hard right guy as well.

About half the IT guys I work with who voted for Bush have told me they will not vote for him next time because of this issue (admittedly this is a small sample). Do they think anyone else is better on this subject? No. But they are pissed and their vote will reflect that disaffection. I think many people underestimate the anger in IT and Engineering right now because those professions don't have professional Union mouthpieces flapping their gums on the news programs. But the Republican party better wake up and realize that some of their base is being quietly eroded. I don't know what the Free Traders think is going to happen. Their Capitalist Randian Nirvanna will never materialize because long before we get there, the electorate will swing to the the left to FDR-esque, New Deal proportions. If one lives in a Representative Republic, one better realize that pissed-off voters usually control the country's destiny, not economic religions.

[A. Pole]

Moreover, at a time when IS organizations are struggling with poor credibility and IT is being scrutinized, offshore outsourcing is becoming a tool for improving service delivery and a source of highly qualified talent in greater numbers.

Free trade benefits?

[A. Pole]

HAve these people stopped to consider that, after a point, every job 'outsourced' to another country is one less consumer to purchase their products? What are they going to do when no one is left to buy their goods?

They will comfortably retire.

[gcraig]

Offshore outsourcing weakens the already-fragile relationships between employees and employers...

Perhaps the understatement of the year.

[A. Pole]

There are a large number of variables at work here that are beyond our national government's ability to control.

Are you saying that the government is not free to decide when it is abolishing tariffs, making new "free" trade agreements and providing insurance for moving jobs abroad?

If you value The Bill of Rights as anything other than a scrap of toilet paper, you don't want the US government to control who this company hires and fires.

Corporations are persons only in an artificial legal sense. Bill of Rights is for the REAL people.

[Cronos]

I can only presume you're an enemy of this nation. or a 'rat. Same difference...

[A. Pole]

Dean loving Luddite.

You are confused. Luddites were opposing the development of the new industries in their own country. Outsourcing and buildup of national debt is something else.

If you like Argentinian model, why don't you move there?

[familyofman]

Being a CFO, I know the pressures for attaining short-term bottom line results. But, the true value of an enterprise is not the short term, but rather longterm. It is also important to consider the impact of seemingly financial only decisions on the community in which you live.
The debacles of Enron & Global Crossing, et al, were more a failure of ethics (business & personal) than poor financial management.

[Havoc]

WE USED TO HAVE DUMPING LAWS to stop companies from producing things cheaply and dumping them on our market to deflate prices and cost jobs. Now dumping happens by throwing us workers out of work at the outset in favor of lower production costs overseas so that american companies can dump and reap the difference as profit. No price change, the dumping is in profit now.

[clamper1797]

more a failure of ethics

And so is offshoring

[Malsua]

Just a note.

>> How about "you can employ prisoners in communist China for $1/hr, should you be allowed to?" <<

99.999999% of workers doing manufacturing production in China are not prisoners. These workers voluntarily work for 8-10RMB a day. That's right about $1.25, if they work for a US corporation. They make 6-8RMB a day if they work for a Chinese corporation.

They eat lunch for 2RMB and have their lodgings provided for free. I spent the last two weeks in Mainland China helping my company set up some of our manufacturing assets in our new facility.(you can check my posting history for a link to some pictures)

Suprisingly perphaps to some people is that it's not labor costs per se that drive the offshoring, it's overhead and regulation here in the US.

There are significant barriers and tariffs and VATs to selling American goods in China. Free Trade with China is a one way street heading straight into Main street USA. The other direction is a mire of impassable roadblocks.

The only upside to this whole equation is the following. The real wealth attached to any product is not gained in China. The product made for pennies lands in the USA at a cost to the USA for pennies. It's then sold for dollars or tens of dollars. The real wealth earned on a product doesn't flow back to China. It stays right here.

The major downside however is that all of the money isn't staying in the USA. Since there is no free trade occuring on this planet, the USA runs up a huge trade deficit with just about everyone. Free trade only exists for the other guy, not for the US.

[harpseal]

ping

on or off let me know

[A. Pole]

Oh BTW, if you owned a business and tried to cut costs of doing business, how would you feel if a government beureaucrat said you couldn't.

If you are moving your business to Indonesia and saying goodbye to the American workers, you should move there in person, deal with Indonesian government and pay tariffs if you want to access American market.

[harpseal]

If the government was serious about stopping the loss of jobs, it would stop companies from implementing Enterprise Resource Planning, Supply Chain Management, Business Process Management and Customer Relationship Management software, no matter where it was written. Enterprise software makes companies more efficient and allows them to eliminate jobs. For instance, some companies produce software that allows companies to automatically process travel and entertainment expenses. The number of people required in HR and Accounting will be much less. Yet these people need jobs too. Where are they going to work now, with all these companies installing automated software? Other companies are installing software that will allow them to closely track the efficiency of their salesforce, and will allow them to target their salesforce. This will result in them hiring fewer sales people. Companies can now bar code all their inventory parts, and with a barcode scanner reduce the number of people taking inventory. Finally, the Plumtree portal will allow companies to severely reduce their paperwork, which will result in fewer document clerks. Don't these companies realize that becoming more efficient and profitable, they're actually keeping less people employed, and that these now unemployed people can't possibly buy stuff and contribute to the economy? Why are these companies so damned selfish?

There is a major difference between investment that increases productivity and investing offshore. This has been documented on these threads for quite a while. When and if you wish to discuss the actual issues facing the USA and the structural problems the current Clinton trade envirornment is inflicting on the United States economy let me know until then equating investment in the USA which helps the American economy with the results of predatory trade practices is merely a repitiuon of someone's propaganda.

[Lazamataz]

This article points out good news.

How so, exactly?

So far, the only good news I can see is that will the mass suicides in America as breadwinners lose their jobs, the traffic on the highways will lessen a bit.

[GatekeeperBookman]

Only Hillary can save W. She will. Tha, & only that, will compell us to vote.