U.S. Offshore Outsourcing Leads to Structural Changes and Big Impact

cio.com ^ | August 13, 2003 | Diane Morello

[Dane]

You have just touched on the one good thing about my home state of NJ! I want to be forever denied the privilege of pumping my own gas!

Oh so people shouldn't have the choice of pumping their own gas.

LOL! And I'm the one called the marxist on this thread.

[dfwgator]

To put it in perspective, before the year 1900 there were over 2000 companies in business to make cars. We all know how many were left when all was said and done.

[Those_Crazy_Liberals]

"OK...let's talk for a second about those who were part of the 9/11 conspiracy, and you can begin by explaining our President's comment that "Islam is a religion of peace". Go no further with me until you've spun that bald-faced lie for the man you'd follow blindly over the cliff."

Listen, I'll dictate the terms of the debate. We're talking about the southern border, not your hate of a particular religion. Is your mind normally so, um, disconnected?

[GatekeeperBookman]

Oh don't apologize to me. It's your ownself that is most hurt. You sound like the idiot.

[Those_Crazy_Liberals]

"Most would not be here if we had border security."

Gangs are not a result of immigration, legal or otherwise. A most silly position for you to maintain. I suppose you're still bitter about the slave trade that resulted in those Bloods and Crips.

[Those_Crazy_Liberals]

"He told a lie that he knew was a lie to simply pander to the muslim/black vote in this country."

Why do you hate blacks and/or Muslims?

[GOP_1900AD]

Right on!

[Those_Crazy_Liberals]

"The Animal Farm problem with our current leadership is obvious."

If you don't mind me pointing out to the other readers on this thread, YOUR problem is you live your life with a fiction book mentality. Wake up to reality my friend. There's a great world out here waiting for you.

[mhking]

Why do you hate blacks and/or Muslims?

I didn't take his statement that way - where did that leap of logic come from?

[Hat-Trick]

Nice evasion. Have you considered politics as a career? You are very adept at avoiding the discussion. Come on and defend your president's own words. I'm betting you won't.

[Those_Crazy_Liberals]

"I didn't take his statement that way - where did that leap of logic come from?"

Trust me, very few on this site consider you any type of judge of logic. Move along.

[superloser]

People said the same thing about Japan in the 80's.

Lemme see if I get this right. Japanese companies built a better mousetrap in Japan using Japanese capital and Japanese knowledge and Japanese workers and beat the pants off of us. Am I correct in how I'm looking at this?

Well look what happened.

Weren't they the ones who first started investing in China?

JMO, the dot com bubble burst and now IT profesionals aren't in as much demand and now they also have competition. Just like the auto and steel workers found out in the late 70's.

Slight difference here. American companies didn't finance the Japanese in the 1970s that I recall whatsoever. The Japanese built themselves up and built a better mousetrap. Right now, its American companies leaving the fold.

Seems pretty obvious. Comparing what is going on nowadays to Japan in the 70s and 80s is like comparing apples and oranges.

[mhking]

Trust me

Sorry, I'm not about to make that mistake.

Move along.

You are certainly not in a position to have me move anywhere.

[Hat-Trick]

Why do you presume to know what I hate? Let's follow your logic. I make a statement consistent with the position that Islam IS NOT a religion of peace. That's tough to argue with from a factual point of view - not that you'll ever understand this concept. Based on my statement and position, you infer that I automatically hate blacks and muslims. The russian judge gives you a perfect 10.0 score for your demonstration of mental gymnastics in jumping to that ill-founded conclusion. You are a citizen (assuming so since you called GWB "my president") of a nation that gives you the opportunity to be a free thinker. Try not to waste it.

[Cronos]

If the failure rate was 100% and they've been sending it out there for the past 3 years, don't you think someone would have noticed it?????? Someone in the higher echelons of business? While one might hope so from experience at a number of places as a consultan noticing such things is not a good policy for a senior manager. The person who originally decided to outsource may well have enough power to punsih anyone who challenges him while tha same person may not be an effective challenger to others at the same level seking advancement so it is not in anyone's personal interest to call attention to the unpleasent reality. just what I have seen of corprate politics in action of some places.

That's bs. The 100% failure rate figure is impossible. The success rate will be the same or else it's not profitable. By diluting the argument with these silly excuses that the quality is lower, we lose the entire point. And the point is that you can get similar quality goods/services at a lower price. And why is that? Because these countries have currency controls (which they won't lift no matter what pressure we brign on them, and which they can't lift because otherwise 2 billion people will languish in poverty, which would mean 2 billion Osama recruits). Why are we so expensive? Because we've got too many lawyers jacking up the sue rates so everyone needs tons of insurance thereby pushing us out of business.

[harpseal]

Weren't they the ones who first started investing in China?

They were one of the first and the removal of some of the restrictions on imports of finished goods into Japan immediately preceded their financial problems. Now I am not at this point asserting a direct connection because I have nbot researched theissue well enough but cetainly the coincidence should not be cavalierly dismissed. I note this has been pointed out to Dane previously (since he is being mentioned in this post he is being flagged as a courtesy).

As for the rest of your comments there are on point and factual.

[hchutch]

I'll take the talk a little further - tariffs are ONLY supported IF the other measures have been enacted AND if te situation is still deteriorating.

I am NOT going to support anything that gives politicians an easy out to avoid dealing with the present problems we face - the legislative and regulatory barriers, the out-of-control lawsuit culture, the excessive tax burden, and the fact that success is considered a dirty word. Right now, passing a tariff only gives the politicians an easy out - so they can AVOID the heavy lifting that has to be done. I'm not a conservative because I support easy outs for politicians. I want them to do the heavy lifting when they have to do it, and it's about time they did that.

* Eliminate the corporate income tax
* Cost-benefit analysis for all regulations
* Tort Reform
* Eliminate the Sherman Anti-Trust Act
* Stop treating achievers and the successful as social lepers.

Do that - and if the problem still persists, I'll be willing to consider tariffs. Not until then.

[the gillman@blacklagoon.com]

Ha!

You argue just like ol Texas_Hawg!
No wonder we never see you too together.

Pretty much everybody respects the logic of MHKING.

Unlike you, he is also a gentleman.

[Hat-Trick]

Why do you hate blacks and/or Muslims?

I'll remind you with your own words from post 84 this thread:

"I think you need to be held accountable for running your mouth and making these insulting, outragous claims."

I stand ready to accept your apology for implying that I hate blacks and/or muslims.

[rdb3]

1. Get rid of government subsidies for offshore investment of US companies. OPIC is the first such program which should go but support of World Bank programs that subsidize the outflow of Capital would be another.

Agreed.

2. Use tariffs on those nations which are engaged in unfair trade practices such as currency manipulation (China and India for example), those nations which refuse to open their markets to US products (China for example with its 50% tariffs on US consumer goods and non tariff barriers), those nations that subsidize competition to American Industry (airbus for example) and those nations which have slave conditions for their workers.

Agreed, but I'd insert the word "only" before the word "on."

3. Use tariffs and other means to prevent the relocation of jobs offshore that are essential to the national defense. If necessary take control of the company seeking to export vital technology or industry by means of eminent domain (No I do not like this last option and I will only defend its use as an absolute last resort like say in the case of rare earth magnets essential to smart bomb technology).

Reluctantly agreed (eminent domain).

4. An immediate end to guest worker programs. If people wish to come to the USA to work and make a life let them immigrate according to the rules.

Agreed.

5 Provide economic development zones where the corporate income tax is zero for operations within these zones. In order to operate in this zone a company must agree to only purchase American components if available and employ only American citizens or legal immigrants in these operations.

Hmmm... I agree with what you are saying, but I'd remove the "zone" and say "individual States" and let them compete for existing companies/corporations to relocate or stay there. Also, I'd make it your tax plan provided that your criteria is met.

6. Scale back unnecessary regulation.

Agreed.

7. Increase the domestic content in purchases by the Department of defense and give absolute preference in non-domestic content to proven allies of the USA over say the French or Germans.

Disagreed. Rewrite it to where no content used by our DoD can come from Germany or France.

8. Do not allow expense involved in moving operations overseas to be included in business expenses under the IRS code.

Agreed.

9. Prosecute for perjury anyone who has made a false statement in order to employ an H1B or L1 visa worker. I will be lenient on the actual perjurer if he/she was ordered to make this false statement and he/she provides testimony to aid in the conviction of the person ordering the perjury. Just because a person is a CEO does not give them a pass on criminal behavior.

Agreed. I'll add an addendum later.

10. Prosecute anyone who orders the transfer of vital defense technology overseas except to strong allies of the USA. The UK and Australia come to mind as meeting these criteria first.

Agreed with a catch: Provide the provision for trial under treason for those who do the ordering.

11. Institute a cap on punitive damages, limits on class action suits, and limits on liability to the actual percentage of liability with no plaintiff able to collect if said plaintiff was involved in the commission of a felony at the time of the alleged tort or was more than 49% negligent in the alleged tort.

Agreed, and add to that a provision of "loser pays" for frivilous lawsuits that slip through.

12. Deport all illegal aliens immediately and take measures that prevent the entry of any more illegal aliens

This goes back to what I said regarding your point #9. In fact, I think you could combine your point 9 with 12 by adding to 9 a provision stating punative fines to companies who employ illegal aliens. I think that this would assist the deportation process because the money incentive will be removed. Since this is not about social services, I'll leave that part out.

ADDITIONS:

-- Decrease the punishing levels of taxation on companies (including the double taxation regarding corporate earnings) which the consumer ultimately pays.

-- Eliminate the minimum wage so that the worker can be paid based on productivity. Overtime compensation will remain the same but instead of 150% of the "wage" the worker would receive 150% of the production pay.

I really don't have anything else to add.

I got a lotta livin' to do before I die, and I ain't got time to waste.