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To: nolu chan
QUOTING LINCOLN

"But what shall we do with the negroes after they are free? I can hardly believe that the South and North can live in peace, unless we can get rid of the negroes. Certainly they cannot if we don't get rid of the negroes whom we have armed and disciplined and who have fought with us, to the amount, I believe, of some one hundred and fifty thousand men. I believe that it would be better to export them all to some fertile country with a good climate, which they could have to themselves.

You haven't quoted Lincoln. You've quoted Butler as saying, "here is what Lincoln said."

Without corroboration, it means little.

Walt

427 posted on 09/02/2003 1:21:44 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa (Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
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To: WhiskeyPapa
[Wlat] QUOTE You haven't quoted Lincoln. You've quoted Butler as saying, "here is what Lincoln said." CLOSE QUOTE

Look up there ^. That is Wlat being quoted by me. That is me saying, "here is what Wlat said." And that is what Wlat said, word for word. As usual, it means little.

428 posted on 09/02/2003 11:03:20 AM PDT by nolu chan
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To: WhiskeyPapa
What, exactly, was it that Lincoln considered a greater evil, even to the cause of human liberty itself?

The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, Vol. 2, page 130

LINK

A Greater Evil, Even to the Cause of Human Liberty Itself

Abraham Lincoln
July 6, 1852

HONORS TO HENRY CLAY

Having been led to allude to domestic slavery so frequently already, I am unwilling to close without referring more particularly to Mr. Clay's views and conduct in regard to it. He ever was, on principle and in feeling, opposed to slavery. The very earliest, and one of the latest public efforts of his life, separated by a period of more than fifty years, were both made in favor of gradual emancipation of the slaves in Kentucky. He did not perceive, that on a question of human right, the negroes were to be excepted from the human race. And yet Mr. Clay was the owner of slaves. Cast into life where slavery was already widely spread and deeply seated, he did not perceive, as I think no wise man has perceived, how it could be at once eradicated, without producing a greater evil, even to the cause of human liberty itself.

429 posted on 09/02/2003 11:05:31 AM PDT by nolu chan
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To: WhiskeyPapa
You must remember that Lincoln knew the south well. Reading Alexander Stephens is helpful on the matter becaue he was Lincoln's very close friend. Seward too. It is not unreasonable to think that Lincoln and Seward shared some similar understandings on race, and reading either Seward of Stephens is makes that David Duke fellow look incredibly mellow.

I would call your attention to the primary fact the Butler is so slandered to day is that he formed not only the first regiments of Americans of African heritage, but also the first Amry Corps officered by Americans of African heritage. THey beat some of Lee's 'best' too, but our history avoids that. Read BLack Jack pershings comments such troops to get an idea of just how hard set the hostilities to Butler were, let alone all the slander in the commonly accepted histories of the man.

Butler's book, by the way, is excellent and an extremely enjoyable insight into the times. As for the time of his writing it, so what? He was in politics all his life, and most politicians didn't write memoirs until their retirement in those days.

Ben Butler slammed the KKK in 1871, and killed in the 1960's. God bless the man and ground he walked. When Lincoln asked him to be his Vice president Butler told him 'only if you agree to die or resign in three months.' Now you know why.

Thaddeus Stevens freed the slaves, Charles Sumner at least graced the Constitution with an amendment anyone could read but almost no one honered for a hundred years. Lincoln gets the credit because the popular perception has been since the EP that he did free the slaves. Nearly all of the poeple were fooled most of the time, but Thaddeus wasn't either.

The real heart of your argument is that Lincoln didn't write his memoroirs in 4 days. That's not a sound argument for anything. Anyone well familiar with Lincoln will know he shared the same attitudes Stephens did about telling everyone the same thing. He didn't. The idea that you could be sure of anything he wrote on the matter is therefore questionable in any case. Butler, however, went to the matt for Americans of African heritage, and has been buried in racist defensive garbage for it. That Lincoln wasn't speaks volumes in plain english.

430 posted on 09/02/2003 8:47:48 PM PDT by Held_to_Ransom
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