Posted on 08/13/2003 6:57:47 AM PDT by bedolido
Abraham Lincoln did consider slaves to be property. Try Matson v. Rutherford (111. Cir. Ct. 1847). Lincoln argued that Jane Bryant and her four children, as escaped property, should be returned to Robert Matson.
We can understand that Lincoln would have attitudes from 1847. I am not sure we can extend you the same consideration.
Walt
LOL. I wan't alive in 1847, and have never expressed any desire for anyone to be a slave, or to remain one.
I didn't.
I said I saw it on the ACW moderated NEWSGROUP, which is not affiliated in any way with AOL.
Dr. Neely DID take issue with Butler's story.
See: "Abraham Lincoln and Black Colonization: Benjamin Butler's Spurious Testimony," CIVIL WAR HISTORY 25 (March 1979), 77-83, by Mark Neely.
President Lincoln NEVER supported deportation of blacks. He worked hard for the passage of both the 13th and 14th amendments, insisting that the former be a plank in the 1864 Republican Party platform even though he though he was surely losing, and despite the fact that public opinion in the north was opposed to it.
President Lincoln supported full rights for black soldiers; he said so, and no spurious story 25 years later can have any credibility in the face of Lincoln's own words that blacks were to have the full benefit of their liberty.
Walt
Some people, even in 1847 were for throwing down a Constitution that endorsed slavery. William Lloyd Garrison was one. But you apparently think that a Constitution that endorses slavery should have been binding on Lincoln.
Unlike Garrison, Lincoln was always willing to obey the law, although he always strove to end slavery. When you quote SCOTUS opinions about returning "property" the only logical implication is that -you- consider people property yourself. Laugh all you want.
To return to the original point, he had plenty of authority to issue the EP, as he said:
"You dislike the emancipation proclamation; and perhaps, would have it retracted. You say it is unconstitutional--I think differently. I think the Constitution invests the commander in chief with the law of war, in time of war. The most that can be said, if so much, is, that slaves are property. Is there--has there ever been--any question that by the law of war, property, both of enemies and friends, may be taken when needed? And is it not needed whenever taking it helps us, or hurts the enemy?"
The Supreme Court never said anything at odds with that, despite your attempts at Soviet style disinformation.
What's really laughable is how STUPID the slave holders were to liable themselves to the war power of the president. Had they not attempted to throw down the best government yet made, the selfish bastards could have kept their human chattels for generations.
Walt
Your mistake is assuming that Walt doesn't believe GWB is a shapeshifting lizard.
I said I saw it on the ACW moderated NEWSGROUP, which is not affiliated in any way with AOL.
Worse yet. Maybe you should post the question on alt.sex.binaries.bestiality.movies and see what they have to say over there.
President Lincoln NEVER supported deportation of blacks.
I've been watching this go on for weeks now, and the only thing I can say about your continued reassertion of this is, "The best defense is not always a good offense." You have been shown proof to the contrary by both NC and GOPCapitalist, and yet you continue in your frothing with nothing other than, "Someone smart who I respect doubts it, even though someone who was there recorded it personally." Here's the secret: Doubt is not evidence, and the evidence that has been provided (firsthand account be Butler, the summons of Butler, the Hay memo, etc) here on FR is overwelmingly against your position. You need to do something other than laugh maniacally and shout at the top of your lungs, "Liars, Liars, they're allllll liars!"
President Lincoln supported full rights for black soldiers
Full rights? Voting rights yes. I don't know about 'full rights' or what all you're including in that. And of course, in addition to those who served, we have the "very intelligent." Assuming, that is, that we would always have someone of his fine sense of judgement to determine who was qualified (maybe they would have bought him a padded chair from which to make his selections).
he said so, and no spurious story 25 years later can have any credibility in the face of Lincoln's own words that blacks were to have the full benefit of their liberty
Perhaps he was following the model set forth by his own home state, in which blacks would be free to enjoy full benefit of their liberty, just not here.
Yes - until amended the Constitution should be binding on Lincoln. Clinton, Bush etc. too.
The Supreme Court never said anything at odds with that, despite your attempts at Soviet style disinformation.
Soviet style? ROTFL!. You quote Lincoln, 'has there ever been--any question that by the law of war, property, both of enemies and friends, may be taken when needed?'
The US Supreme Court had long since answered that question. Please see #307 again, or read it here:
Our duty is to determine under what circumstances private property may be taken from the owner by a military officer in a time of war. And the question here is, whether the law permits it to be taken to insure the success of any enterprise against a public enemy which the commanding officer may deem it advisable to undertake. And we think it very clear that the law does not permit it.' Chief Justice Taney, Mitchell v. Harmony, 54 U.S. 115 (1851)The question is why you have a such a problem understanding the English language.
Had they not attempted to throw down the best government yet made, the selfish bastards could have kept their human chattels for generations.
Wrong. The Confederacy threw off that government and formed a new one. The pompous Yankees that signed on the bottom line and then reneged were the selfish bastards. The Yankees sailed the oceans to bring slaves here, the Yankees selfishly allowed hundreds of thousands to die in the Middle Passage, the Yankees selfishly sold their slaves for the money, only when the slave trade was prohibited did the selfish Yankees consider the practice of chattel slavery with anything other than delight.
Lincoln selfishly represented a slave OWNER for the MONEY! The selfish Lincoln hated slavery so much that he urged ratification of an Amendment guaranteeing slavery FOREVER - 'I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable'. Go push YOUR Soviet style disinformation on someone else.
Lincoln's actual words were that he wished some Blacks enjoyed suffrage, or he was in favor of such suffrage, but he said he would leave the actual decision to the States.
Excerpted from:
Lincoln and Johnson
Their Plan of Reconstruction and the Resumption of National Authority
First Paper
by Gideon Welles
Galaxy Magazine, April 1872, pp. 526
He alluded to the great solicitude which the President felt on this subject, his frequent recurrence to the necessity of establishing civil governments and preserving order in the rebel States. Like the rest of the Cabinet, doubtless, he had given this subject much consideration, and with a view of having something practical on which to base action, he had drawn up a rough plan or ordinance which he had handed to the President.
The President said he proposed to bring forward that subject, althought he had not had time as yet to give much attention to the details of the paper which the Secretary of War had given him only the day before; but that it was substantially, in its general scope, the plan which we had sometimes talked over in Cabinet meetings. We should probably make some modifications, prescribe further details; there were some suggestions which he should wish to make, and he desired all to bring their minds to the question, for no greater or more important one could come before us, or any future Cabinet. He thought it providential that this great rebellion was crushed just as Congress had adjourned, and there were none of the disturbing elements of that body to hinder and embarrass us. If we were wise and discreet, we should reanimate the States and get their governments in successful operation, with order prevailing the the Union reestablished, before Congress came together in December. This he thought important. We could do better; accomplish more without than with them. There were men in Congress who, if their motives were good, were nevertheless impracticable, and who possessed feelings of hate and vindictiveness in which he did not sympathize and could not participate. He hoped there would be no persecution, no bloody work, after the war was over. None need expect he would take any part in hanging or killing those men, even the worst of them. Frighten them out of the country, open the gates, let down the bars, scare them off, said he, throwing up his hands as if scaring sheep. Enough lives have been sacrificed. We must extinguish our resentments if we expect harmony and union. There was too much of a desire on the part of some of our very good friends to be masters, to interfere with and dictate to those States, to treat the people not as fellow citizens; there was too little respect for their rights. He did not sympathize in these feelings. Louisiana, he said, had framed and presented one of the best constitutions that had ever been formed. He wished they had permitted negroes who had property, or could read, to vote; but this was a question which they must decide for themselves. Yet some, a very few of our friends, were not willing to let the people of the States determine these questions, but, in violation of first and fundamental principles, would exercise arbitrary power over them. These humanitarians break down all State rights and constitutional rights.
But what shall we do with the negroes after they are free? I can hardly believe that the South and North can live in peace, unless we can get rid of the negroes. Certainly they cannot if we don’t get rid of the negroes whom we have armed and disciplined and who have fought with us. . . . I believe that it would be better to export them all to some fertile country with a good climate, which they could have to themselves.
Benjamin F. Butler, Autobiography and Personal Reminiscences of Major-General Benjamin F. Butler: A Review of His Legal, Political, and Military Career (or, Butler’s Book) (Boston: A. M. Thayer & Co. Book Publishers, 1892), p. 903.
Benjamin F. Butler, Autobiography and Reminiscences (1892)
In the spring of 1863, I had another conversation with President Lincoln upon the subject of the employment of negroes. The question was, whether all the negro troops then enlisted and organized should be collected together and made a part of the Army of the Potomac and thus reinforce it.
We then talked of a favourite project he had of getting rid of the negroes by colonization, and he asked me what I thought of it. I told him that it was simply impossible; that the negroes would not go away, for they loved their homes as much as the rest of us, and all efforts at colonization would not make a substantial impression upon the number of negroes in the country.
Kind sir,
I hasten to inform you that rules applying to we knuckle-dragging secessish white trash do not apply to the morally-perfect anti-Constitutionalists. Now, if you will kindly sit back and allow Walt to continue his baseless tirades, natural order will have been restored to this thread.
Your's, etc.
Colo. Henry Lee II
Droolin Hall
Chaw Stain Hollow, Virginia
P.S. Is white lightning or rye whiskey more appropriate when serving filet-o-carp? Please advise.
From Edward Bates to Abraham Lincoln, November 30, 1864
Washington, Nov 30 1864.
Honored Sir,
I beg your pardon for having overlooked, in the pressure of business, in my latter days in the office, the duty to give formal answer to your question concerning your power still to retain the Revd Mr Mitchell1 as your assistant or aid in the matter of executing the several acts of Congress relating to the emigration or Colonizing of the freed blacks.
[Note 1 Lincoln had appointed the Reverend James Mitchell of Indiana the agent for emigration in 1862. For more on this case, see Mitchell to Lincoln, October 20, 1864.]
It is too late for me now to give a formal opinion upon the question, as this is my last day in office. I can only say that, having examined all the acts referred to, I am satisfied that, notwithstanding the act which repeals the appropriation contingently, you still have something to do, under those acts; and therefore, that you have the same right to continue Mr Mitchell that you had to appoint him originally. And I hope it will be done, for he seems to be a good man, of zeal & capacity.
Most respectfully Sir
Your obt servt
Edwd. Bates
[nc: Underline and internal note as in Library of Congress transcript.]
From James Harlan to Abraham Lincoln, December 31, 1864
Washington City D. C.
Dec. 31st. 1864
To the President:
A few days since at the request of Mr. Mitchel, emigrant Commissioner,1 I enclosed his statement of account for services. He says that the President alone can fix the rate of compensation and order its payment. Mr. Mitchell desires some such order as the enclosed.
[Note 1 James Mitchell, an Indiana minister, was appointed the commissioner of emigration in 1862.]
He doubtless needs his pay, as he is not rich.
With the greatest respect
Your obd't Serv't
Jas Harlan
[Endorsement:]
The Treasurer of the United States will settle with James Mitchell, Commissioner of Emigration at the rate of $ ... per annum, from the date of his Commission June 3d 1862 to June 31st 1864.
Image files: | Page 1 | Page 2 | Page 3 |
The Abraham Lincoln Papers at the Library of Congress
James Mitchell to Abraham Lincoln,
October 20, 1864 (Seeks office)
Abraham Lincoln Papers at the Library of Congress. Transcribed and Annotated by the Lincoln Studies Center, Knox College. Galesburg, Illinois.
From James Mitchell to Abraham Lincoln1, October 20, 1864 [Note 1 Mitchell, an Indiana minister, was appointed the commissioner for emigration in 1862. The commissioner for emigration was an office in the Interior Department that was
responsible for organizing the colonization of former slaves to areas outside the United States. Mitchell received a salary of $1,800 per year.]
[LINK]
Abraham Lincoln Papers at the Library of Congress. Transcribed and Annotated by the Lincoln Studies Center, Knox College. Galesburg, Illinois.
From James Mitchell to Abraham Lincoln1, June 1864
[Note 1 Mitchell, an Indiana minister, was appointed the commissioner for emigration in August 1862.]
Private
Emigration office
Washington D C. Jne ... /64
Permit me to furnish the report, called for by the Senate resolution of March 25th ult -- so that it may be forwarded to them.2
[Note 2 The Senate had passed a resolution on March 25, 1864 that requested the president to furnish the report of the commissioner of emigration for 1863. See John P. Usher to Lincoln, June 29, 1864.]
But if in your judgment it should be retained until the next session of Congress, I suppose it can be retained under the following letter of apology
"It is due the Senate and the writer to say, that this resolution, though forwarded regularly to the Department of the Interior -- has never been sent me for report-- I have such a report as my imperfect files, will enable me to make The most valuable files -- such as those relating to Chiriqui3 and other contracts, having been withdrawn from this office -- with your permission I will furnish this report at the opening of the next Session."
[Note 3 The Chiriqui Improvement Company, headed by Ambrose W. Thompson, proposed to sell coal to the government that was mined in Panama by colonized freedmen. This project was approved by Lincoln but eventually fell through due to opposition from the neighboring Latin American states. There are several documents in this collection that pertain to the project. See especially, Thompson to Lincoln, August 8, 1861; Ninian Edwards to Lincoln, August 9, 1861, Lincoln to Caleb B. Smith, October 23, 1861; and Salmon P. Chase to Lincoln, November 12, 1861.]
I have sent a copy to each Senator, except Senator Pomeroy,4 to whom Secty Usher5 has given the Chiriqui books and papers, and from whom I trust they will be returned to this office with the Chiriqui contract and valuable papers drawn from me at the request of A W Thompson, together with all other files taken herefrom, and placed by the Secty. I know not where.
[Note 4 Samuel C. Pomeroy]
[Note 5 Interior Secretary John P. Usher]
The resolution of Senator Powell6 was placed in his hands by Republicans in the Senate it has been followed up by Gov. Powell -- not because he loves our ploicy -- but because he is indignant at the conduct of this Department towards a friend and neighbor.
[Note 6 Lazaraus W. Powell, a Kentucky politician and lawyer, served as governor (1851-55) and was a Democratic member of the U. S. Senate (1859-65).]
I earnestly ask your attention to the correspondence of Messrs Hodge and Rolls, relating to Honduras, and the Claims of the British Colonies.
It is my opinion that the Palmerson7 ministry, now largely our friends will be forced out of power, unless they receive some indirect aid. The loss of Irish population is great, and is becoming alarming to the British -- Tories will urge war, or any other measure to check it. And I fear they may succeed in giving trouble unless we give back in exchange colored labor-- This alone will quiet the men of London; as the Colonial interests of England, is her ruling interest and most tender point-- To that interest in my opinion, we should now address ourselves, and make it a fast friend.
[Note 7 Lord Palmerston was the prime minister of Great Britain.]
I have the honor to remain you obednt Servant
James Mitchell
The Abraham Lincoln Papers at the Library of Congress
Series 1. General Correspondence. 1833-1916.
James Mitchell, January 29, 1864 (Receipt for papers taken from executive office)Top of Form 1 Bottom of Form 1
[Handwritten with no transcript. Somewhat difficult to read. Below is my transcript.]
Recd. January 29, 1864, from the Executive office, a file of papers relating to colonization of Blacks and being papers filed by me and related to the President, which can be found.
The same to be returned to the Executive office.
James Mitchell
Comm of Em
[LINK]
Abraham Lincoln Papers at the Library of Congress. Transcribed and Annotated by the Lincoln Studies Center, Knox College. Galesburg, Illinois.
From [James Mitchell] to John P. Usher1, November 5, 1863
[Note 1 The following draft of an executive order appears to be in the hand of James Mitchell, the commissioner for emigration. On November 5, 1863, Mitchell wrote to Lincoln and requested him to meet with members of the African Civilization Society. The interview was granted and the officers of the society presented Lincoln with a petition requesting $5,000 in federal aid. Mitchell apparently prepared the order in the hope that Lincoln would deem the cause worthy and sign the authorization to release funds for the society. See Mitchell to Lincoln, November 5, 1863 and African Civilization Society to Lincoln, November 5, 1863.]
Executive Mansion
Nov 5th 1863.
The Secretary of the Interior is hereby directed to issue a requisition on the Treasurer of the United States, for the sum of Five Thousand Dollars, to be placed to the credit of John Peterson, and Henry M Wilson, the Treasurer and Secretary of "The African Civilization Society, of New York-- The requisition shall be handed to James Mitchell, Commissioner of Emigration, who shall deliver it to said Society, when its said Officers, shall lodge with him a good and sufficient bond, for the proper arrangement of those funds; of which he shall be the judge, the money to be drawn from the Colonization funds
[LINK]
Abraham Lincoln Papers at the Library of Congress. Transcribed and Annotated by the Lincoln Studies Center, Knox College. Galesburg, Illinois.
From James Mitchell to Abraham Lincoln1, November 5, 1863
[Note 1 Mitchell, an Indiana minister, was appointed the commissioner for emigration in 1862.]
[Marginal note: Colinization]
Washington Nov 5th/63
The Officers of "The African Civilization Society", are in attendance and respectfully ask a short interview -- they are
G W Levere, President
H M Wilson, Sect
R H Cain,2 Director
[Note 2 Richard H. Cain was a minister of the African Methodist Episcopal church at Brooklyn, New York. Following the Civil War, Cain moved to South Carolina where he was active in missionary work and politics. He served in the state legislature and was elected to two terms in Congress (1873-75, 1877-79). In 1880 Cain was ordained a bishop.]
P S Porter, ... "
Wm Anderson, ... "
I have the honor to
remain your servant
James Mitchell.
Comm. of E[migration]
[Endorsement:]
Appointed to see them at 4 ocl P M3
[Note 3 The officers of the African Civilization Society presented Lincoln with a petition requesting $5,000 to aid the work of the society. See African Civilization Society to Abraham Lincoln, November 5, 1863.]
[LINK]
Abraham Lincoln Papers at the Library of Congress. Transcribed and Annotated by the Lincoln Studies Center, Knox College. Galesburg, Illinois.
From John P. Usher to Abraham Lincoln, May 18, 1863
Department of the Interior
May 18. 1863.
Sir,
The recent action of the War Department, prevents the further emigration from the U. S. of persons of African descent, for the present, and it, in my judgment, will not be renewed to such an extent as to make it necessary to employ any additional force beyond that now legally employed in the Department. I have, therefore, to suggest that the further attention of the Revd. Mr Mitchell,1 to that business, be dispensed with.
[Note 1 James Mitchell, an Indiana minister, was appointed the agent of emigration in 1862. Though Mitchell is not listed in the 1863 Official Register, he received his salary through the end of June 1864. See Usher to Lincoln, June 29, 1864 and 39 Congress, 1 Session, Senate Executive Document 55.]
I am induced to make this suggestion to save needless expense and to afford the Pension Office an additional room, now occupied by him, which is greatly needed for the proper transaction of the business of that Bureau the delays in which are becoming the subject of just complaint.
With great respect
Your obt. Servant,
J P Usher
Secretary
Mitchell Circular, 1862, Department of the Interior
[LINK]
Lincoln Papers at the Library of Congress. Transcribed and Annotated by the Lincoln Studies Center, Knox College. Galesburg, Illinois.
From James Mitchell to Abraham Lincoln1, July 3, 1862
[Note 1 James Mitchell, an Indiana minister, was appointed the agent of emigration in 1862.]
Washington July 3rd 1862
Permit me to state that I have had interviews with Hon T Stevens2 Chairman of the Committee of Ways and Means and several Senators and Representatives in regard to an appropriation for the relief of such of the Contrabands as may desire to emigrate--
Mr Stevens requested me to ask at your hands a short message, recommending this appropriation so as to aid its passage -- he states that he has a bill nearly ready on which he can place the sum and asks that the recommend be sent on as soon as you can find time to make it.
[Note 2 Thaddeus Stevens]
It is agreed on all hands that the Country is shot up to an expense of either a greater or less amount which humanity forbids us to with-hold -- and further that the expenditure should produce the greatest and most lasting good to those people and that if used in their removal the best results will be obtained for both parties.
We would respectfully suggest the sum of $250,000 it should not be much less than $100,000 and one million would not be too extravagant for such an object-- We need not stimulate expensive emigration now -- but the plan, and means for the Country beyond the district are needed.
Respectfully submited
James Mitchell
Agent of Emigration
P. S. I am at your service to write as You may suggest.
From James Mitchell to Abraham Lincoln1, July 1, 1862
[Note 1 James Mitchell, an Indiana minister, was appointed the agent of emigration in 1862.]
Washington July 1st 1862
Permit me to place a copy of the letter of the 18th May,2 before you; I will send up a few copies to Mr Nickolie's room, for future use should they be needed.
[Note 2 Mitchell's pamphlet on colonization, dated May 18, 1862, is in this collection.]
Senator Harland,3 who has kindly agreed to aid the more active Colonizationists of the Senate, suggested last week in a conversation had with him on the subject, that it would be well for Secretary Smith, to send in a communication to Congress, saying that an appropriation for more general Colonization was required. I named the matter to Mr Smith, who suggested in return that I should bring the matter to Your notice.
The appropriation already made is confined the in its benefits to this District; the great number of persons of Color thrown on the Country for care and support by the advance of our armies, costing the Country a large sum to support and direct, without much permanent good to them or Community, suggests that measures and means of relief should be asked of the Legislative Department, such as will comprehend the greatest lasting good in return for the outlay.
[Note 3 Senator James Harlan of Iowa]
In our opinion the Government should be so supplied with means that it can aid others besides the Colored people of this District, who for the most part are less inclined to remove therefrom than the Contrabands; nor do we expect a great emigration from the ranks of the Colored residents of the District, as they are to a great extent satisfied with their new liberties and franchises, with hopes of further enlargement -- it will require time to enable them to realize that they are near the summit now -- education must refine their sensibility, and a purer morality than has yet obtained amongst the free people of Color, must actuate them, before they will feel that an escape from their present relation to the American people is a duty and a privilege -- but in these respects they are improving with wonderful rapidity; and when the principles of their separation from us, and their nationality, become fixed policy with us; and they have had time to comprehend the necessity thereof, the work of emigration will take care of it-self to a great extent
But the case of the slaves just freed from the control of their Masters by the war, differs from the above -- the feeling of insecurity, the dread of being returned to the control of the slave holder -- their confidence in the benevolence of the Government, their condition as wanderers and strangers, all prompt them to accept removal to a secure home where freedom will be undisturbed by any future revolution or change in the Administration of this Country adverce to them.
In starting the work of emigration, we should foster each and all the agencies of emigration, and invite others-- Liberia, the creature of your own benevolence -- Hayti the favorit of New England -- Centeral America where we need to sustain our Commercial interests an Anglo-african people, independent yet auxiliary -- Mexico the home of the mixed races -- the Danish proposition -- and even England might be invited to draw a supply of free labor from the South for her West Indian possessions -- possibly this proposition would be agreeable to the British Government, might change their views about Colonization, and enable them to see the unfortunate necessity that rests on this Republic to thus Colonize -- at any rate it would enable you to reason the matter with them, and through them with our own people who are opposed or careless to future danger -- and if pressed too hard in the threatened intervention, (for I still cling to what you may call a Mystical theory) such a correspondence could be made the means of indoctrinating the British people with republican views and theories-- May god avert the necessity of intervening in the business of other Nations, but especially England, it is far more desirable to make her our true and lasting friend-- May such be the will of Heaven.
I have done what I could to aid and direct legislation in this matter of Colonization but I have come to a point where I need support, and hope it will be agreeable to you to grant us that aid-- The Confiscation bill will pass this week or next, with a section therein authorizing you to Colonize, so soon as that bill becomes a law -- will be a proper time to recommend an appropriation of a sum sufficient to give respectability to the movement -- say not less than $100,000 and one million would not be extravagant in such a case.
The appropriation when made need not be used in an extravagant manner -- of this I will be careful so long as I am permited to suggest or direct the work -- we need not now stimulate expensive emigration -- but when mercy to the Negro and economy to the Government demand our action as in the case of dependent Counterbands our action -- then we should act, but so as to be equitable in the distribution of the Government patronage, amongst the above agencies of emigration, prefering those which cost the least -- except that we might wisely discriminate in favor of our own Colonies -- or rather Colonies of our own foundation -- no one could object to this -- however it will be an object with me to regard all with equal favor
On the return of peace when the draft on the Treasury for war purposes subsides, then may we stimulate more expensive and extended emigration then may our ships of war, be used as transports and surplus arms used to give respectability to Anglo-african civilization -- nor would it be wrong in my judgement to arm and drill a few thousand slaves -- who would promise to emigrate at the end of the war -- nor would the Country murmur much if such an experiment should be tried in Sout Carolina, provided the above understanding was distinct in the public mind -- indeed the self reliance of the Negro, his ability to defend himself is a necessary conviction to general and succesfull emigration, or independent Colonization.
Respectfully submited
Jas Mitchell
Agent of Emigration
P. S. I had a conversation this afternoon with Genl J B Rodgers, of Ten, in regard to the doctrines of the letter of May 18th, and of this point, arming a few thousand negroes -- to be subsequently removed, he agrees with the whole, and agrees with the declaration we uniformly affirm to all our border friends that to hold the Country together in the future there must be a party in the South with emancipation proclivities and measures--
Abraham Lincoln Papers at the Library of Congress. Transcribed and Annotated by the Lincoln Studies Center, Knox College. Galesburg, Illinois.
From James Mitchell to Abraham Lincoln1, December 13, 1861
[Note 1 Mitchell was an Indiana minister who received the appointment as commissioner of emigration in 1862.]
Jeffersonville. Indiana.
December 13th 1861.
Accept our grateful acknowledgments for the emphatic recommendations to colonize the freed men of color, coupled with the clear statement that the preservation of our republican institution depends on such a measure. Your policy on this subject will receive a hearty support in this locality. It is peculiarly grateful to the religious portion of the county, who now begin to see the rise of a better day for that curssed and benighted land from which those poor creatures were drawn -- and as the first substantial token of the fracture of the slave power. We earnestly pray that the Divine Ruler will enable you to give the world a system of measures that will elivate the freed man, and govern whilst elivating -- the negro requires a strong government, of this I have been convinced for years and admit it reluctantly -- such a government is needed as will counteract his natural indolence and want of energy and enterprise which where-ever found in any race can only be counteracted by a high intelectual culture or in the absence of that, a strong social and civil economy that will drive to action.
[Marginal note: Agreeable to the religious part of the Country]
[Marginal note: Though conservative a fracture of the Slave power]
[Marginal note: The Negro requires a strong government]
[Marginal note: To counteract indolence of character]
The question that is now pressing on the nation is what shall be the form of that social and civil economy that will give enlarged rights to the freed man who must needs be thrown on society in the course of events by the operation of the just laws of confiscation, in the case of the slaves of disloyal masters?
[Marginal note: What shall be the social relation of the freedman]
In presuming to answer this vital point question, it is essential to say that the controversy of the Great Ruler, with this nation; lies not so much in displeasure with a domestic institution, that governs a once servile and savage class with a strong government; as in the monstrous abuse of that power, in taking virtualy from them the Word of God, by forbidding them instruction in letters -- and the abrogation of the solemn obligations of the domestic relation; which are ordinances of Heaven, to wit the relation of Husband and Wife; Parent and Child; therefore, in proposing a remedy, and social economy equal to the wants of the case -- strength of government should be retained -- whilst the laws of God heretofore offended should be protected -- or he can and will avenge himself--
[Marginal note: The matter of in controversy between this nation & the Divine Ruler]
[Marginal note: We have abrogated his ordinance of Matrimoney and the relation of Parent & Child]
[Marginal note: Those ordinances must be protected]
The first thing therefore claiming attention is the preservation of the mandatory relation existing between master and slave-- Should this relation be dissolved by the act of confiscation? We think not, but that law should make the title of the slave-holder eschet to the Federal government, and a strict mandatory relation maintained between the authorities and the freed-men for the purpose of affecting the removal of the latter, which work should be slow and gradual, whilst for the time being a strict survalence should be exercised, so that this perplexing mass of population may not suffer demoralization -- the Federal authority and controul may be made rest as lightly on them as their good conduct will justify.
[Marginal note: The mandatory relation should be retained]
[Marginal note: By the eschet of the title]
[Marginal note: To prevent demoralization]
Having thus retained the important and fundamental principle of a strong mandatory relation, the necessity for proper legislation to govern and control those people comes next in order, that legislation in our opinion should relieve the Federal Government of much of the necessary trouble, and expense, and throw the labour into the hands of private companies, or chartered bodies of benevolent, energetic, and wealthy men -- somewhat after the plan of the English East India Company -- you might give us a "West India Company", or a "Port Royal Agricultural and Commercial Company," which could be brought into being with men, skill and means to meet the wants of the case -- but in all such cases when placed in charge of freed men it should be for ultimate removal to a cotton, rice, or sugar field in some of the strictly Troppical Countries.
[Marginal note: Who shall take charge of them]
[Marginal note: Chartered companies]
[Marginal note: Who shall finally remove them to Tropical climes]
As to the field of present occupation and concentration the estates of disloyal men eschet to the Government for the lifetime of the owners, those could be placed in the hands of those companies and worked by the freed men under their control -- whilst the return of the title to the family would compel the removal of the laborers -- this would be as desired.
[Marginal note: May be now used on the estates of the Disloyal]
As to the proper locality of the final home, that locality should be as remote from us as possible -- as in the communication of October 1st 18602 we still cling to Africa, as the locality where the greatest permanent good can be effected, but as the freed men have been prejudiced by English and Northern influence, united with strict Southern pro slavery influences -- any attempts on the part of the Government to exercise the mandatory relation in that direction would be resisted by them -- this would be unfortunate -- a thing to be avoided, as their hearty agreement is essential to success in their removal-- Further the American Colonization Society which has had charge of Liberia, has become unpopular with them, because it has been managed as all things in Washington have been managed in strict subordination to the interests of slavery. Fortunately this Hemisphere presents many desirable localities under our Tropics, which make a general removal to Africa unnecessary and undesirable from any other necessity than that of Christian Civilization.
[Note 2 Mitchell's October 1, 1860 letter is not in this collection.]
[Marginal note: Africa desirable but the Negro disinclined to remove thereto]
[Marginal note: The Tropics of this Hemisphere]
The shorter the journey the more likely are we to succeed in the work of removal, so that of the several places eligible -- South America, Centeral America, or Mexico, the latter is the most eligible on this account although the quality of the final neighbor might not be so agreeable, yet as we are struggling for life we should wave that reflection or objection-- Mexico can hardly be called a Tropical country, but it has already become the home of the mixed bloods of North America; where the partial assimilation of the colored races has been progressing for many generations so that of the 7,000,000 population in that country not more than 1,500,000 can be regarded as of Castilian blood, and it is questionable whether there is the half of that uncorrupted -- yet notwithstanding this large prepondarance of mixed bloods the population is heterogeneous and factious, so that the annexation of this Country or its people to ours is not safe, if we wish to perpetuate unimpaired our institutions, for no part of a true republic could be constructed out of a land thus encumbered with mixed bloods, it being a condition precedent that the inhabitants shall be homogeneous, either originally or by assimilation, through the amalgamation of races. But Mexico is now and has been peopled with a factious mixed and consequently revolutionary race, and we fear will remain so for ages to come.
[Marginal note: Mexico proposed]
[Marginal note: It is now the home of the mixed bloods]
[Marginal note: Not suitable as a part of this Republic]
An unpleasant necessity of a heterogeneous population is that it needs a strong centeral government -- with restricted franchise -- privileged classes or ruling families -- and powerful military arm -- this a true republic like ours cannot give -- and should not give -- but we may permit others to give such a government -- and use such a land thus governed as a receptical for the mixed bloods of our own country by a friendly agreement to that end-- I hope you will pardon me for saying that that unfortunate country should be permited to take the direction that Providence and his instruments the three Powers now at Mex her shores design giving her; at least for a time -- it is possible they may be able to give her a better government than she has had for some time past.
[Marginal note: A strong centeral government necessary for Mexico]
[Marginal note: The tripple combination may give her a strong government]
Notwithstanding the unkind conduct of the English nobility and the rage of the factory districts it is to be desired that a people of our own race, and general religious civilization, should have paramount position in Mexico -- because of the strong antislavery sentiment of the British people -- because of their Protistant civilization -- because they will prove a better agent for the religious good of that country -- than either France or Spain -- but that Providence before whom we bow the human will, alone can shape the issue -- yet had we the disposal of the event we would say let England abandon the Canadas to us; and let us abandon the Centeral American and Mexican states to her -- it is clear that our future annexation if ever made should be North-ward and not south-ward--
[Marginal note: Desirable that England should be the successful party in Mexico]
[Marginal note: Provided she surrender the Canadas to independence & final annexation to the US.]
It may not be out of place to examine the position of the manifest destiny statesmen who are ever laboring to annex -- and to extend the limits of the Republic -- those men are bent on the absorption of Mexico, & Centeral America, and in truth there is no end to their cupidity. Suppose the nation abandoned to their guidance -- and success should crown their efforts -- the jurisdiction of the government extended over the whole South West portion of the North America bringing under our rule the seven millions and a half mixed bloods of Centeral America and Mexico, which when added to our own people of color makes the whole twelve millions persons of mixed blood half-indian, half-spanish, half-white, half-black with all the intermediate crosses of those several races. The question now comes up how shall those people be governed -- how shall they come in -- what shall be their rights -- for rights they must have, either equal right, or restricted rights -- but rights they must have-- What shall those rights be and how shall they be exercised? One class of statesmen say we will enslave them -- this is impossible in this age.
[Marginal note: The danger of the "manifest destiny" argument]
[Marginal note: What shall be the rights of those annexed]
[Marginal note: 1st Answer]
A second class say we will extend equal political rights, and civil franchise and thus remove the difficulties of government -- the majority of the American people will not submit to this -- the spirit of the Anglo-saxon in the nation forbids a legal corruption of blood.
[Marginal note: 2nd Answer]
A third say we will change our form of government -- we will centeralize, as the British have done; and then by the power of a restricted franchise -- a privileged ruling class -- and strong military arm -- we will throw iron bands around the several tribes and races governing and ruling the whole by strong external pressure -- the power going down from the head or throne -- and not as with us up from the people -- (this is the dreem of the states in rebellion, and the legitimate effect of the slave institution) To all this the true Republican says you shall not corrupt our republicanism.
[Marginal note: 3rd Answer]
Rejecting all these as are shut up to have nothing to do with the land of mixed races -- we should not have annexed Texas -- the act was an act of cupidity and we are reaping the effect in part.
[Marginal note: 4th "
Our true safety is in having nothing to do with them]
Should the future of Mexico be the formation of a strong centeral government forced on her by the intervention of the European powers -- pardon me for saying that policy and political philosophy both unite in suggesting a passive submission to the event -- the act will erect a barrier against the further progress of American slavery -- we can secure a home for our mixed races -- and a proper receptical for the defeated rebels -- with a government to suit--
[Marginal note: The future of Mexico]
I should not drop this subject without saying that it is possible that the three Powers have partitioned amongst themselves the states in rebellion, Centeral America, and Mexico-- England taking under her protection South Carolina, and adjoining states, France the lands on the Gulf surrendered by the first Emperor, and Spain her old possessions-- If so we must prepare to struggle for existance; and the World, wide, war; of the Despotisms against human rights, civil and religious -- we think this the great event pending and at hand; it may be within your administration -- but our reasons are too obscure for this place, and might be regarded as too mistical -- in such a conflict England's true position is with us, but she is this day held fast within the grasp of that "vile person" x to whom policy and place God has abandoned her.
[Marginal note: The European Powers may intend to assume their former possessions on this continent]
[Marginal note: England's true position is with us]
[Marginal note: x Daniel 11th Chapr 21 v]
In any event it is clearly our duty to prepare for the worst -- in doing so to reunite our people as soon as possible, and as extensively as may be possible -- had the humble suggestions of last December,3 given as they were in humble earnestness, and from a painful conviction of duty -- predicated on a knowledge of the designs of the ploters of this great calamity -- which suggestions were communicated to the these Union men of the South -- so as to bring up the lagging to your support -- had your own convictions been permited to culminate in action -- had the expectations of the Bell interest and the Douglass interest in the South been met -- it is the opinion of well informed persons in the South, and on the Border, that the Government would have had but seven States to fight in place of eleven, this too is the opinion of the writer -- yet in all this our opinions may be wrong-- We are free to say that those wicked men now in arms against the Government, are not justified by any pretext whatever; but such are men and such have men been from the fall-- Man -- poor man -- must be managed carefully or the worst passions of his nature will cause him to ruin himself, and bring ruin on others-- May God grant our statesmen skill in this sad hour.
[Note 3 See Mitchell to Lincoln, December 26, 1860.]
[Marginal note: We should unite our people]
[Marginal note: No pretext can justify rebellion]
In this connection I will venture the opinion, that by some means or others, two gentlemen who voted against you in the South, be but who are now, and have been Union men should be engrafted on to the Cabinet, either by the creation of two new departments, or as assistant secretaries, with all the power of principal in cabinet meetings-- For the following reasons -- the Union men of the Border and South desire the conservative vote in that body increased. Second -- they cannot regard any member of your government as their representative except it may be the Executive himself -- the Cabinet is the Great Council of State, where the measures of government are devised, where the amount and mode of taxation is suggested, where matters relating to life and property are handled -- when the greatest interests of themselves and family are resolved in consultation-- In this fearful hour, they claim that it is antirepublican to be thus taxed, thus handled, without some of their own well known and true friends being in this grave council -- their words are not loud, for they fear to strengthen the enemy by showing their own discouragements -- but they are nevertheless heartfelt.
[Marginal note: The creation of two new Cabinet offices for the South a necessity to Union]
[Marginal note: The Cabinet is the great National council]
[Marginal note: The Union men of the South as such have a right to representation therein]
I must say that we expect too much from a bleeding border when we require that not a murmur shall escape on this subject -- the writer has lately labored to reasure the men of Louisville and claims to know the border from the East end, to the West end thereof, and there is but one opinion amongst the reflecting men of the South, that from reasons of policy, as well as of equity, the Union men of the South, should have two members of Cabinet, in our opinion such a move would be worth 200,000 men to the army of the Nation -- and this is no hour in which to disregard the good will of the wavering and doubtful -- the opportune moment for England to stick the wedge into this confederacy has comefor at this day it is the moving enginary of the Old World -- in the ascendant; and as sure as the three frogs x were the ancient heraldric armoral bearrings, of ancient France; so sure the three unclean spirits have gone forth to the nations of the Roman world, in the form of French management and diplomacy to readjust the rule and dominion of the World -- it is long since Lord Palmerson gave out that an understanding in regard to this Hemisphere, had been arrived at with France, this out-giving begins to take form, and its fearful import will soon be disclosed -- the remedy is to avoid a quarl just now, appeal to the masses of the English people, displace the present ministry -- but is the remedy within our grasp, we fear not -- so we make up our minds for the issue, trusting in that God, who has fore warned us in his word (as part of the Protestant World) and promises final victory x after great and hitherto unparalleled suffering.
[Marginal note: Worth 200,000 men to the National cause]
[Marginal note: The Nation needs the strong arm of the wavering to resist the European powers]
[Marginal note: The European combination should be burst open]
[Marginal note: It is Despotic in Spirit & intention & with the States in rebellion]
[Marginal note: x Daniel 11 ch 31st ver]
[Marginal note: x Rev 16th chap 13th ver]
[Marginal note: Rev 11th chap]
May God direct and sustain the Authorities of our country, and give success to our arms.
Yours respectfully
James Mitchell
Scores of historians have spent countless hours trying to discredit Butler and his story. but since it is impossible to prove a nagative, and since, as other historians have pointed out, Butler's account is "full and circumstantial" and there was no reason for him to lie, these efforts have proved fruitless. More to the point, Lincoln said the same thing about colonization and his fear of Black violence to others (see page 615). Based on these and other factors, some scholars, Ludwell H. Johnson (68) and Herman Belz (282) among them, have concluded that there is no reason to doubt the butler account. "If Butler's recollection is substantially correct, as it appears to be," George Frederickson said, "then one can only conclude that Lincoln continued to his dying day to deny the possibility of racial harmony and equality in the United States and persisted in regarding colonization as the only real alternative to perpetual race conflict" (57)Forced Into Glory, Lerone Bennett, Jr., p. 167
Citations:
Belz, Herman, Reconstructing the Union. Ithaca, 1969.
Frederickson, George M. "A Man but Not a Brother: Abraham Lincoln and Racial Equality," Journal of Southern History 41 (February 1975): 39-58.
Johnson, Ludwell. "Lincoln and Equal Rights: The Authenticity of the Wadsworth Letter," Journal of Southern History 32 (Sept. 1966): 83-7
Congressman Julian, who conferred with Lincoln often as a member of the powerful Joint Committee on the Conduct ofthe War, used almost the same words, saying that when Lincoln "very reluctantly issued his preliminary proclamation ... he wished it distinctly understood that the deportation of the slaves was, in his min, inseparably connected with the policy" (RR 61)Forced Into Glory, Lerone Bennett, Jr., p. 510
Citation:
Allen T. Rice, Reminiscences of Abraham Lincoln by Distinguished Men of His Time. New York, 1888.
Looking back later, Rev. Mitchell said, according to an interview published in the St. Louis Daily Globe-Democrat, August 26, 1894, that he asked a Presbyterian pastor to recommend a local man who could help him organize Illinois for the American Colonization Society. The pastor recommended Lincoln, who didn't, Mitchell said, look like much but who had a firm grasp of the politics of colonization and what Mitchell had done in Indiana. Lincoln was thirty-four years old when he met Mitchell. What did he believe? He "earnestly believed in and advocated colonization as a means of solving 'the race problem,'" Mitchell said. The two men became friends or at least associates, and Lincoln later names Mitchell commissioner of [Black] emigration in the Lincoln administration.Forced Into Glory, Lerone Bennett, Jr., p. 226
This was not an ad hoc political tactic or a hastily devised response to the pressure of events -- this was, Lincoln's emigration aide Rev. James Mitchell told the St. Louis Daily Globe-Democrat on August 16, 1894, the foundation of Lincoln's private and public policy. It was "his honest conviction that it was better for both races to separate. This was the central point of his policy, around which hung all his private views, and as far as others would let him, his public acts" [Italics added] Lincoln was "fully convinced" that "the republic was already dangerously encumbered with African blood that would not legally mix with American [sic] . . . . He regarded a mixed race as eminently anti-republican, because of the heterogeneous character it gives the population where it exists, and for similar reasons he did not favor the annexation of tropical lands encumbers with mixed races ...."Forced Into Glory, Lerone Bennett, Jr., p. 384
Lincoln's emigration aide, the Rev. James Mitchell, said the Proclamation "did not change Mr. Lincoln's policy of colonization, nor was it so intended." On August 18, 1863, seven months after the signing of the Proclamation and three months before the Gettysburg Address, Mitchell said he asked Lincoln if the "might say that colonization was still the policy of the Administration." Lincoln replied twice, he said, that "I have never thought so much on any subject and arrived at a conclusion so definite as I have in this case, and in after years found myself wrong." Lincoln added that "it would have been much better to separate the races than to have such scenes as those in New York [during the Draft Riots] the other day, where Negroes were hanged to lamp posts."Forced Into Glory, Lerone Bennett, Jr., p. 554
Kind sir,
White with fish! ;o)
Your humble and obedient servant
Lerone Bennett, Jr. is a highly acclaimed journalist, author and executive editor of Ebony. He graduated from Morehouse College in 1949 and began his career as a reporter for the Atlanta Daily World and later served as city editor. Bennett moved to Chicago in 1953 where he worked as associate editor at Jet magazine. The following year he became associate editor for Ebony and is now executive editor of the publication. He has authored many articles and books including, Before the Mayflower: A History of Black America, 1619-1962 (1962), What Manner of Man: A Biography of Martin Luther King, Jr. (1964), and Forced Into Glory: Abraham Lincoln’s White Dream (2000).
I hope you didn't miss it.
Abraham Lincoln Symposium
and Annual Abraham Lincoln Association Banquet
Sponsored by:
With support from:
Abraham Lincoln Symposium
February 12, 2002, at the Old State Capitol in Springfield, Illinois,
The Symposium is free to the public.
Address: Lerone Bennett Jr., Ebony Magazine, Forced Into Glory
The American Book Awards / Before Columbus Foundation
The American Book Awards, established in 1978 by the Before Columbus Foundation, recognize outstanding literary achievement by contemporary American authors, without restriction to race, sex, ethnic background, or genre. The purpose of the awards is to acknowledge the excellence and multicultural diversity of American writing.
2002 Lifetime Achievement: Lerone Bennett, Jr.
Salute to Greatness Award
of the Martin Luther King Jr. Center for Nonviolent Social Change
Lerone Bennett, Jr.
Among his numerous awards, he has received the Literature Award from the American Academy of Arts and Letters, the Lifetime Achievement Award from the National Association of Black Journalists and was recently inducted into Chicago State University's new National Literary Hall of Fame for Writers of African Descent in December 1998. Bennett is on the Board of Trustees at Morehouse College (Atlanta), Columbia College (Chicago) and the Chicago Historical Society. He is also a member of the President's Committee on the Arts and the Humanities.
Yes, in a moment of insight you clearly cut right to the heart of the matter.
[nolu chan 280] You claim that Butler was seeking office. You document the fact that Butler's Book was published in 1892. It appears that, in reality, Butler had not sought any political office in about 8 years. If you have anything whatever to support your claim that Butler was seeking any political office in 1892, please present it.
Could you please provide whatever evidence or source material you relied upon to make your claim that Butler was seeking office in 1892?
Could you please explain how it would have benefitted Butler to lie about Lincoln and colonization, thereby providing a motive to lie about that subject, as you have claimed?
Now that you have enjoyed changing the subject and digressing, and I have enjoyed another session of Wlatian cut-n-paste in response, as quoted one more time above, THE ACTUAL QUESTIONS REMAIN UNANSWERED.
Impossible.
A conversation is alleged to have taken place, but one of the two parties is killed four days later. No account given by the other party will pass muster as a credible source by any reputable historian.
All a reputable historian will credit is what we know: "Butler said Lincoln said".
Walt
Walt
These reports gained credibility, in my mind, when it was brought out that Bush was out running in 100 degree heat. ;-)
Walt
So now have we gotten past the hurdle of admitting that the meeting actually at least took place?
Appealing to his authority is a fallacy, Walt. Neely has indeed questioned Butler's meeting with Lincoln. But other historians have countered with the conclusion that it was genuine. Thus it is by no means a matter of consensus among historians thereby rendering an appeal to one over the others fallacious.
Now, if you would like to track down Neely's article about Butler and perhaps post the relevent parts of it on this forum (i.e. what evidence he has to question Butler's account) you are certainly welcome to do so. They may then be scrutinized accordingly on their own merit rather than on the simple name of their proponent. But until then you have absolutely no grounds on which to state that Neely's argument is a conclusive fact and no basis by which to demand that others accept his conclusions as their own. Have a nice day.
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