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To: visualops
Some Evidence against Shoeless Joe: http://roadsidephotos.com/baseball/shoelessjoe.htm

There were four thrown games in 1919: in those, Jackson batted .250, with no RBIs and one run scored. In the other games, he hit .500 with four scores and 6 RBIs. This yields the oft cited "but he averaged .375 in the World Series" stat that Jackson's supporters use.

Back to Pete: Selig's problem here is that he's not made many public statements about this case. He's allowed time -- and Rose himself -- to build a case for re-instatement despite the fact that Rose is accused of the Most Egregious Sin in the game of baseball: allowing events from off the field to influence the outcome and the integrity of games. Gambling is something that baseball specifically and strenuously works to oppose -- which is why the "Lifetime" ban was instituted. You can beat up players on the other team and get suspended for a week or so, but mess with W's and L's via gambling, and that will kill the game.

Selig should have come out strongly and continuously to update the public on the importance of this case. That fact that he hasn't is simply a comment on his personality as much as his competence as Baseball Commish. He treats problems as if they'll simply go away, and seems to refuse to deal with reality. That's led to bad contracts, bad player-owner relations, bad fan-baseball relations and such. The Pete Rose case is nothing different.

But if as reported here, that Pete will be ultimately permitted to return defiantly without remourse (that's within HIS personality, of course!) and ultimately permitted to MANAGE A TEAM again is tantamout to permitting a convicted child molester to raise children again.

Any bets (no pun intended) on his return to gambling? Or whether Rose ever stopped? Here's one vote for booting both Rose AND Selig from baseball for life.

101 posted on 08/12/2003 10:15:23 AM PDT by alancarp (SItting Senators ought not cash in while under the public trust)
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To: alancarp
A portion of Joe Jackson's Grand Jury testimony:

Q: Do you recall the fourth game that Cicotte pitched? A: Yes, sir.
Q: Did you see any fake plays made by yourself or anybody on that game, that would help throw the game? A: Only the wildness of Cicotte.
Q: What was that? A: Hitting the batter, that is the only thing that told me they were going through with it.
Q: Did you make any intentional errors yourself that day? A:No, sir, not during the whole series.
Q: Did you bat to win? A: Yes.
Q: And run the bases to win? A: Yes, sir.
Q: And fielded the ball’s at the outfield to win? A: I did.
Q: Did you ever hear anyone accusing Cicotte of crossing the signals that were given to him by Schalk. A: No sir, I did not.
Q: Do you know whether or not any of those signals were crossed by Cicotte? A: No, sir, I couldn’t say.
Q: But you didn’t hear any of the boys talking about that, did you? A: No.
Q: After the fourth game you went to Cincinnati and you had the $5,000, is that right? A: Yes, sir.
Q: Where did you put the $5,000, did you put it in the bank or keep in on your person? A: I put it in my pocket.
Q: What denominations, in silver or bills? A: Some hundreds, mostly fifties.
Q: What did Mrs. Jackson say about it after she found it out again? A: She felt awful bad about it, cried about it a while.
Q: Did it ever occur to you to tell about this before this? A: Yes, where I offered to come here last fall in the investigation, I would have told it last fall if they would have brought me in.
Q: And you are telling this now, of course, of your own free will, you want to tell the truth, is that the idea, of all you know? A: Yes, sir.
Q: In the second game, did you see any plays made by any of those fellows that would lead you to believe that they were trying to throw the game, that is the game that Claude Williams pitched with Cincinnati? A: There was wildness, too, that cost that game. Two walks, I think, and a triple by this fellow, two or three men out.
Q: Was there any other move that would lead you to believe they were throwing the game? A: No, sir, I didn’t see any plays that I thought was throwing the game.
Q: In the third game Kerr pitched three, 1 to nothing. Did you see anything there that would lead you to believe anyone was trying to throw the game? A: No, sir. I think if you would look that record up, I drove in two and hit one.
Q: You made a home run, didn’t you? A: That was in the last game here.
Q: The fourth game Cicotte pitched again? It was played out here in Chicago and Chicago lost it 2 to nothing? Do you remember that? A: Yes, sir.
Q: Did you see anything wrong about that game, that would lead you to believe that was an intentional fixing?A: The only thing that I was sore about that game, the throw I made to the plate, Cicotte tried to intercept it.
Q: It would have gone to the first base if he had not intercepted it? A: Yes.
Q: Did you do anything to throw those games? A: No, sir.
Q: Any game in the series? A: Not a one. I didn’t have an error or make no misplay.
Q: Supposing the White Sox would have won this series, the World’s Series, what would you have done then with the $5,000? A: I guess I would have kept it, that was all I could do. I tried to win all the time.
Q: To keep on with these games, the fifth game, did you see anything wrong with that or any of the games, did you see any plays that you would say might have been made to throw that particular game? A: Well, I only saw one play in the whole series, I don’t remember what game it was in, either, it was in Cincinnati.
Q: Who made it? A: Charlie Risberg.
Q What was that? A: It looked like a perfect double play. And he only gets one, gets the ball and runs over to the bag with it in place of throwing it in front of the bag.
Q: After the series were all over, did you have any talk with any of these men? A: No, sir, I left the next night.

http://www.blackbetsy.com/jjtestimony1920.pdf
169 posted on 08/12/2003 6:35:05 PM PDT by visualops
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