Telemarketers on the ropes

MSNBC.Com ^ | 8/11/2003 | By Lance Williams - CINCINNATI BUSINESS COURIER

[Bobby777]

Popular do-not-call list bringing industry to its knees

Aug. 11 — In the past three months, the hallways at Groesbeck-based Tel-A-Sell Marketing Inc. have become a lot less crowded. CEO Edd O’Connor has been forced to trim his telemarketing staff from 72 to 18.

[Rebelbase]

"if the product is good, go door-to-door"

Those are the only people I hate worse than telemarketers.

[TontoKowalski]

I dislike the telemarketing companies but I do feel a bit of sorry for the (whatever percentage) of people who were trying to put food on the table ... there's got to be something better to do ...

I believe the telemarketing hack quoted in the article bemoaned the loss of two million jobs for folks just trying to make a living.

Now the math. Estimated and rounded off, so don't anybody get all technical on me.

Assume US population of 300 million. Of those 30% are minors or beyond working age. That leaves 210 Million in the workforce. Assume total govt workers (state, federal, local) to be 10 Million. That leaves 200 Million.

This guy is saying that 1% of all the working stiffs in the private sector are making phone calls to sell vinyl siding and whatnot.

Thats total BS.

[hardhead]

The thing that REALLY pisses me off is that it is so ******* complicated to pursue action. For instance, how about getting woke up at 2 in the morning by a junk fax? I keep a fax for legitimate reasons and how they get the fax number, I don't have the foggiest. When I did the research to try and track down who it was that was doing the junk faxing, I discovered that it was a company called Fax.com which already has been chastised by the feds. There are so many 'smokes and mirrors' in the fax that the average joe would just drop the issue. The disclaimer is loaded with false and misleading statements and they never identify themselves. The 'Anonymous Call Rejection' feature does not work on 'out of area' calls, so these scum can invade your privacy and disturb your peace at will.

[TontoKowalski]

if the product is good, go door-to-door

Did you develop the marketing plan for Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses?

[Bobby777]

I had that too ... really made me mad ... Save the fax with the advertiser and contact FCC.gov ... swamp the FCC with this stuff (meaning everybody report these things so they'll do something) ... they'll stop 'em and/or fine 'em ...

[Bobby777]

I knew somebody wouldn't like that ... LOL ... I was trying to suggest a way of placing something directly into consumer hands besides hounding them on the telephone ... actually I feel the same way about door-to-door ..."No Solicitation" signs seem to be in order ... it seems like it has dropped quite a bit in my area ... I hate the "super cleaners" and the "coupon books" but they always get me for about $20 with those darn Girl Scout cookies ...

[quebecois]

Do you know if they made this for telephones? Wouldn't it be a great idea to require a caller to punch in a 4 digit code to have the call go through to your phone? It would eliminate a lot of annoying calls....telemarketers and otherwise.

[Bobby777]

oh that's what it was for ... specifically for a telephone ... it would protect a fax as well ... as I recall it was $39-$99 ... seems like it was The Sharper Image ...

[kevkrom]

Jumk faxes for INK CARTRIDGES??! That's kind of like throwing a brick through someone's window with a note attached that says, "Broken windows? Call ACME Glass, 555-4567"

Somewhat off-topic, but once upon I time I saw a company selling security systems in one of those temporary "shops" in the walkways of a mall. The company was collecting names/addresses for follow-up sales calls.

Now, the evil, warped portion of my brain kicked in. I started thinking that this could be the world's greatest scam:

1. Collect addresses of people who don't have security systems
2. Have confederate rob house, knowing that there is no security system
3. Sell security system to people who have now recently been robbed
4. Wait a while until insurance replacements arrive
5. Use backdoor built into your system to rob them again
6. Flee the country before anyone figures out what happened

[kevkrom]

Word of mouth on an item like the gift books wouldn't get them all out. They were $40, about $8 of which was commission to the telemarketers

Sure they would. There's a book like that for most areas called the "Entertainment" book, which is filled with coupons for local businesses (plus a buy-one-get-one dining card for many restaurants) that can usually be purchased from several charities or from a local bookstore -- they have a hard time keeping them in stock.

[kevkrom]

Why don't I get telemarketing calls on my cell phone?

Because that is illegal since most people have to pay for incoming phone calls on cell phones. Cell phones have dedicated exchange numbers, so they're easy for telemarketers to identify and avoid.

[SamAdams76]

I did some wacky stuff for work as well when things were tight financially. I remember once working with a copy machine dealership picking up and delivering copiers for them in my own car. I had a Ford Escort wagon. This dealership was too cheap to hire truckers to do it right so I'd drive all the way to Panasonic headquarters in Secaucus, NJ from Boston, stick a copy machine in the back of my wagon, and drive it all the way back to Boston and deliver it to whatever customer it was buying the machine. I'd have to get their technician to help me lift the machine out of the car. Now this was in the days before cell phones and beepers so I would have to call from a payphone to tell them when I got there and then sit there, double-parked in the streets of Boston, waiting for the tech to show up. Then we'd each grab an end of the copier and lug it into the building. It's a wonder I didn't get serious back problems. The dealership paid me in cash too. It was a totally under-the-table deal - usually an envelope with $200 in cash.

One time driving back in New Jersey, I had a problem with my wagon, it would stall out as soon as I let off on the gas pedal. So I drove all the way back from Jersey with my foot on the gas. If I had to slow down for tollbooths or whatever, I'd shift into neutral so I could keep my foot on the gas. It was a crazy ride. Then another time, the copier was too big for me to close the hatchback door. So I'm driving all the way back with a copier sticking out through the rear with the hatchback open. When I hit Connecticut, a huge downpour ensues. I had to pull off the highway and look for a place to buy some plastic or tarp to cover the damn copier. All the way back, I'm wondering if the copier was ruined and I would now have to pay the $10,000 for the copier!

But I'd rather go through all that again than to be a telemarketer.

[Djarum]

This really opens up a nasty can of worms.

I didn't notice this reply in my comments, sorry for the delay. My idea is to stop spam at its origin, not the recipient. Spammers are quite easy to identify: thousands of messages with forged headers are sent from a single host. Even if the headers are legitimate, numerous abuse reports should give the spammer's provider reason to investigate. If an ISP doesn't take action, their provider should stop their ability to send mail.

Is the provider in this case authorized to inspect company confidential e-mail when they're not storing it on their servers?

Inspecting the contents of the e-mail wouldn't be necessary, all that is needed is the header information, which isn't confidential.

[MrsEmmaPeel]

thousands of messages with forged headers are sent from a single host.

Host names can be forged. Determining the point of origin of some spam is not as easy as it seems.

[Djarum]

Host names can be forged. Determining the point of origin of some spam is not as easy as it seems.

ISPs can trace it anyway, provided each hop will cooperate.

[MrsEmmaPeel]

provided each hop will cooperate.

That's the rub! So many refuse citing the privacy of their clients. Only an FBI warrant will get them to cooperate. Not all are like this, but a good many are.

[Djarum]

Then that's their problem when they can't send mail ;)

[goldstategop]

Which is why spammers have resorted to Trojan Horse worms to keep the connections open for easy any time spamming.

[Djarum]

In that case contact the business being advertised to track down the spammer.

[Twinkie]

It is hard work. My cousin got hired to make telemarketing
calls for a replacement window company. She was unemployed
otherwise, so opted to take that job. At first she was
enthused about it, but after about a month and a half of it
she had to holler "uncle". Some people she called made
unkind remarks to her. She said she told them, "I'm sorry
for bothering you, but would you rather I sat on my fat
fanny at home and drew welfare from the government?"
Having said that, we were getting an average of 60 of those
kind of calls a month (or more) and finally got a caller
ID and didn't answer any anonymous ones once we determined
none of the family had anonymous listings on caller ID.