476 A.D. All Over Again?

National Review Online ^ | 11 Aug 03 | Victor David Hanson

[.cnI redruM]

Perhaps we really are beginning to go the way of The Western Roman Empire?

[EggsAckley]

Bread & Circus.........Ancient Rome


Welfare & Recalls......California

[lilylangtree]

Interesting.

[Pest]

bump

[MosesKnows]

Perhaps we really are beginning to go the way of The Western Roman Empire?

Do you suppose? Do you see any parallels to this observation?

"The Roman Republic fell, not because of the ambition of Caesar or Augustus, but because it had already long ceased to be in any real sense a republic at all. When the sturdy Roman plebeian, who lived by his own labor, who voted without reward according to his own convictions, and who with his fellows formed in war the terrible Roman legion, had been changed into an idle creature who craved nothing in life save the gratification of a thirst for vapid excitement, who was fed by the state, and who directly or indirectly sold his vote to the highest bidder, then the end of the Republic was at hand, and nothing could save it. The laws were the same as they had been, but the people behind the laws had changed, and so the laws counted for nothing."

For the record and for those who are interested, it is A.D. 476, not 476 A.D.

[A Texan]

I tend to agree. The United States down fall will be when we, as a nation, are no longer willing to fight. I do believe we are coming dangerously close to this point, and the so called intellectuals are leading the charge.

[Beck_isright]

"We should take stock of this dangerous and growing mindset — and remember that wealthy, sophisticated societies like our own are rarely overrun. They simply implode — whining and debating still to the end, even as they pass away."

Says it all.

[OpusatFR]

It is a coordinated plan to end US primacy. The globalists need the US leveled.

Question is who is Odoacer to bring chaos into our society?

[samuel_adams_us]

Survival of the fittest, the intellectuals will be used as cannon fodder and the process will start all over again.

[.cnI redruM]

That would accurately describe the political platform of any major organization running to head up a modern Western Democracy today.

[DoctorMichael]

"..............we have a special burden to remember how tenuous and fragile civilization remains outside our suburbs................"

"..............we have the leisure to engage in utopian musing..............."

".............in times of peace and prosperity there arose an unreal view of the world beyond their borders, one that was the product of insularity brought about by success, and an intellectual arrogance that for some can be the unfortunate byproduct of an enlightened society.............."

"..................wealthy, sophisticated societies like our own are rarely overrun. They simply implode, whining and debating still to the end, even as they pass away....................."

BUMP!

[.cnI redruM]

I'm tempted say Howard Dean or Bill Clinton could become our Ricimir if we are not vigilant. Odoacer just pitched the meaningless 9th inning after everyone had left the ballpark.

[KellyAdmirer]

Rome's fall is a pretty complicated subject. If one looks hard enough, one could find support for any number of causes that have parallels in modern life. The underlying reason in my own humble opinion was massive migration from the steppes that simply ovewhelmed Roman defenses. One might even go so far as to call it an illegal immigrant problem....

[OpusatFR]

There is hope though. The Eastern Roman Empire held for centuries. Could California, Arizona, Nevada and New Mexico fall under the onslaught leaving the East to survive?

[.cnI redruM]

Perhaps a charge of C4, strategically placed on the San Andreas fault could purge the cancer in a timely manner.

[.cnI redruM]

With our INS, we wouldn't hold the pass at Adrionople either.....

We let them in for the same reason Diocletian did. Noone else will harvest the grapes or sow the grain. Plus, we lack the will and manpower to adequately man the border provinces.

[txhurl]

Somedays it all does look intentional, doesn't it?

[Old Sarge]

One might even go so far as to call it an illegal immigrant problem....

Concur, with the added from the text:

Most operated with impunity for decades under the exemptions provided by the false gods of "diversity" and "multiculturalism."

All symptoms of the disease...

[LS]

I like VDH, and agree with him on most points. We have corresponded by e-mail on several occasions. Here, his analysis is not entirely on target. In his 1999 book, "The Soul of Battle," he asked if the a democracy could ever again muster the kind of willpower necessary to field an "army of liberation."

Interestingly, merely two years after he asked that question, we did.

As another poster mentioned, the causes of Rome's fall were incredibly varied, including the DEprofessionalization of its army. It had abandoned the citizen army more than 500 years!!! before Rome "fell" and in fact expanded its borders quite consistently, until it simply had too much border to coverl. In addition, a colleague of mine who is the world's expert on the Roman economy debunks the notion that the Roman economy was substantially worse in 476 than in, say, 200 A.D. It was different, especially due to the large number of slaves.

In short, one should not jump to historical correlations based on a couple of "similarities."

[OpusatFR]

"...especially due to the large number of slaves."

You are right. It is different. I don't think they were the ~tax slaves~ as we are today.

BTW, anyone know if it is true that one-third of the taxes in California were paid by 44,000 people during the 90's? Co-worker just made that remark.

Ain't socialism grand?