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To: MJY1288; Calpernia; Grampa Dave; anniegetyourgun; Coop; Ernest_at_the_Beach; BOBTHENAILER; ...
If you want off or on my pro-Coalition/anti-wanker ping list, just ping. Thank you.
2 posted on 08/10/2003 11:31:41 AM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl ("Saddam Hussein is no longer bad news. He's a piece of trash waiting to be collected." - C. Powell)
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl; *Bush Doctrine Unfold; *war_list; W.O.T.; Dog Gone; Grampa Dave; blam; ...
Excellent work!

Bush Doctrine Unfolds :

To find all articles tagged or indexed using Bush Doctrine Unfold , click below:
  click here >>> Bush Doctrine Unfold <<< click here  
(To view all FR Bump Lists, click here)



3 posted on 08/10/2003 11:39:50 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (All we need from a Governor is a VETO PEN!!!)
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Thanks for alerting me to this, and all of it's great links. This will be good reading when I have the time.
5 posted on 08/10/2003 11:49:44 AM PDT by KineticKitty (We support our troops...as long as what they say/do fits our preconceived notions?)
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Ping thanks, RC.

I do wish more people would see such things. Thank the gods for the Internet.

9 posted on 08/10/2003 12:14:12 PM PDT by Old Sarge (Serving You... on Operation Noble Eagle!)
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Great links!! Mass e-mailed!!

It's so nice to hear things "straight from the horse's mouth", too, as in Chief Wiggles' Online Journal, for example.

THANK YOU!!

13 posted on 08/10/2003 1:48:00 PM PDT by radu (May God watch over our troops and keep them safe)
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl; lepton; winner3000; Dog
A while back I promised myself I'd put together the basics of an IraqLivesSaved counter, to repudiate the "other" counter and show how hypocritical the left is. Anyone who wants to script this would be my hero, since I would love to link to it on my FReeper Home Page and it has been a long time since I've coded Java/script. I'm not the first with this idea, as shown below, but here's my take:

   # of Iraqis not killed by Coalition compared to estimates 
   # of Iraqis not murdered by Saddam since deposed* x # of days since 1 May 03
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   (                                                                                 )
x (birth rate per day of those saved above x # of days since 1 May 03)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   (                                                                                 )
-  # of Iraqi deaths reported by www.iraqbodycount.net
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   # of Iraqis alive because of the compassion, competence and
      love of humanity by the US-led Coalition.

* incl. # of Iraqis not dying from sanctions since they were lifted


A Calculated example for Sunday, August 10, 2003:


   Minimum                                                  Maximum
   48,000                                                      3,900,000
+ 47/day x 71 days                                       548/day x 71 days
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   (  51,337  )                                                ( 3,938,908 )
+ (  34.2 per 1000 population per year x (51,337 or 3,938,908) / 365 days  ) x 71 days
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   (  51,678  )                                                ( 3,965,112 )
-  6087                                                         7798
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   45,591                                                      3,957,313

References:
http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/Saddam_Hussein.htm
http://www.cesr.org/iraq/docs/humancosts.pdf
http://www.medact.org/tbx/docs/Medact%20Iraq%20report-spread.pdf
http://www.ippnw.org/CollateralDamage.html
http://www.geographyiq.com/countries/iz/Iraq_rankings.htm
http://www.casi.org.uk/info/undocs/internal.html


Infance mortality rate: under-five mortality of children had increased from 56 deaths per thousand for the period 1984-1989 to 131 deaths per thousand for the period 1994-1999. For the same period, infant mortality increased from 47 deaths per 1000 live births to 108 deaths per 1000 live births (Table 3).24

World Health Organization
(with support from UNICEF)
(WHO estimates 100,000 to 500,000 civilian casualties.)

There are several calculations estimating civilian deaths:
MedAct estimates a “range from 48,000 to 261,000 for a conventional conflict and additional deaths from postwar adverse health effects could total 200,000.”5 The World Health Organization estimates 100,000 direct and 400,000 indirect casualties and anticipates that “as many as 500,000 people could require treatment to a greater or lesser degree as a result of direct or indirect injuries.”6

Estimated Casualties
The World Health Organization is estimating 500,000 casualties distributed in the following manner:
South – 100,000
Center – 200,000
Baghdad and surrounding area – 200,000


http://www.townhall.com/columnists/marvinolasky/mo20030408.shtml

the policies of Saddam's regimes led to an average of perhaps 200,000 Iraqis dying per year through brutal repression, slaughter by chemical weapons, government-forced poverty and so forth

http://www.deanesmay.com/archives/000840.html

I would love to sit down and figure out how many people Saddam’s regime slaughters every day. Then, we could make some sort of counter that reads “Peace with Iraq has claimed (x) lives”. The counter would include every death that can be laid at Saddam’s feet going back to the end of the Gulf war and go up daily. Let the other side A.N.S.W.E.R. for that…

Posted by Andrew Cory at February 20, 2003 09:41 PM

Dean (and Andrew),

Here are some preliminary numbers. Unfortunately, I won't have much time today to follow-up, but should over the weekend.

According to an article printed by Genocide Watch, an NGO founded in the Hague, Netherlands in May of 1999, Saddam is responsible for the deaths of roughly one million Iraqis.

http://www.genocidewatch.org/IraqkilledJanuary26.htm.

(This article was written by John F Burns, a NYT correspondent who also wrote the article that Dean linked to a few days ago.

Of those one million, 500,000 died in the war with Iran, and another 100,000 died in Gulf War I. I am inclined to exclude those for the sake of being conservative. This means that Saddam is responsible for the deaths of 400,000 purely civilian Iraqis.

Saddam Hussein has been in power since July 16, 1979. Through the writing of the article I cited above that is 8,740 days meaning that on average roughly 47 Iraqi civilians die every day Saddam Hussein is in power. You can do the math yourself, but since I have already done it that’s nearly 1,500 per month, or 17,000 per year.

In direct response to your question Andrew, Saddam is responsible for roughly 200,000 purely civilian deaths since the Gulf War (using my form of analysis).

I would like to stress that this is an EXTREMELY conservative number. I have read quite a few articles on the topic since Andrew’s post and I feel confident that most experts on the situation would agree that my numbers are a low-ball estimate.

Posted by Mike Plaiss at February 21, 2003 10:01 AM

21 posted on 08/10/2003 2:31:12 PM PDT by optimistically_conservative (Can't prove a negative? You're not stupid. Prove it!)
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Thanks for the heads up!
34 posted on 08/10/2003 8:15:21 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
ping
35 posted on 08/10/2003 11:44:10 PM PDT by moni kerr (Lead, follow or get the hell out of the way)
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Bump.
36 posted on 08/11/2003 5:52:44 AM PDT by windchime
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