Posted on 08/06/2003 6:00:48 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
Ashcroft tour to plug terror bill
WASHINGTON - Attorney General John Ashcroft is hitting the road to rally support for the Victory Act, which would further expand his powers to go after Al Qaeda and narcoterrorists, the Daily News has learned.
Ashcroft will starting pushing the Vital Interdiction of Criminal Terrorist Organizations Act later this month in a 10-day, 20-state Victory tour that includes a stop in New York.
But the nation's top cop is facing tough opposition from critics on both the right and left, who fear Ashcroft is eroding civil rights.
The Justice Department's reach was vastly increased by Congress after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks with the Patriot Act.
Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) is expected to introduce the Victory Act next month. If passed, the feds would be allowed to:
# Clamp down on Arab hawala transactions, where cash exchanged in an honor system has been funneled to terrorists.
# Get business records without a court order in terrorism probes and delay notification.
# Track wireless communications with a roving warrant.
# Increase sentences for drug kingpins to 40 years in prison and $4 million in fines.
The getting business records without a court order and delaying notification somewhat bugs me - they say it's against terrorism, but what Conservatives see as terrorism and what liberals see as terrorism are two different things, and Conservatives won't be in charge of the federal branch forever. If they have enough evidence, they should have to get the court order is my view.
Tracking wireless communications..."wireless communications" is a very broad category, and chances are they'll come across the "wireless communication" of quite a few innocent Americans in the process - if they make provisions to discard anything they gather that has nothing to do with the roving warrant, I'd be okay with it.
Arbeit Macht Frei
That would be redundant. All spin included in the original
1. They're not coming after you. Get over it;
2. There is NO computer that is capable of tracking every cel call, 24/7, around the nation;
3. The combined manpower of FBI, CIA, ATF, INS and IRS couldn't hope to investigate every silver-haired grandmother of Norse descent around the country;
4. They're not coming after you - get over it;
5. From all the FReepers who express such admiration for the character and Xian morality of the current administration, these same FReepers panic and forget that THERE IS A WAR ON, and the enemy is right here;
6. They're not coming after you - get over it;
7. See #6
4. They're not coming after you - get over it;What a relief. I was getting all crampy in this crawl space. And I'm almost out of fruit roll-ups and juice boxes.
Ya know, some FRiends actually sound like that, too.
THERE IS A WAR ON, and the enemy is right here;
Sorry, maybe I'm too old or don't scare easily, but the "enemy is right here" line doesn't scare me nor do I take it seriously. If any of our enemies are "here", more laws and more government are not going to protect us - individual citizens (preferably armed) are what's going to prevent the next terrorist attack within our borders.
The open borders policies, the incompetence of various federal agencies, etc. are what have let our enemies reach our shores in the past, and if the gate screeners can't even do their jobs at the airports, and if illegal aliens are slipping across our borders every day, it comes down to the average American to protect his or her property or life.
You won't see a repeat of 9/11 - you saw what happened on the flight that went down in PA - the people realized what was going on and they fought back and won (at the sacrifice of their own lives). Those are the types of people who are going to protect this country, not the government.
Thank goodness somebody else understands me :-) I don't think the current administration is going to use these type of laws against us, but I have no doubt that in the future, somebody will.
Hell, look at the firearms discussions on FR, look at our organizational abilities on FR, look at our discussions of military service, of things we learned, etc. You know that some liberal is just aching to put sites like FR out of business, because sometimes we get a little anti-government, and we like our firearms and our privacy, etc.
1. Maybe not me, but they WILL BE coming after SOME for their political beliefs;
2. There are plenty of computers capable of tracking many cell calls, 24/7 around the nation. Tracking ALL of them is not required to be evil;
3. No one complains about investigating EVERY silver-haired Norse Grandmother. We complain about investigating political opponents.
4. They are probably not coming after me, but I have the balls and integrity to say it's wrong to come after someone ELSE in defiance of the Constitution;
5. Yes, the enemy is here--and he is destroying the Constitution;
6. See #4.
7. See #6.
That's ALWAYS a possibility - especially if a Rodham Clinton regime takes control. My point - that you missed - is that the current folks hold themselves to a higher moral standard, and recognition of responsibility, than did their predecessors.
Sorry, maybe I'm too old or don't scare easily, but the "enemy is right here" line doesn't scare me nor do I take it seriously.
Then be glad that I and a few hundred thousand of my bretheren do, every night you're here FReeping.
The open borders policies, the incompetence of various federal agencies, etc. are what have let our enemies reach our shores in the past, and if the gate screeners can't even do their jobs at the airports, and if illegal aliens are slipping across our borders every day, it comes down to the average American to protect his or her property or life.
FRiend, I don't disagree with a single one of these points. But vigilance committees aren't going to get the job done, either.
Those are the types of people who are going to protect this country, not the government.
Must quibble - among the purposes of the Federal Government, as stated in the Preamble, is "To Provide For The Common Defense". And those kind of people, whether you acknowledge it or not, DO occupy the uniforms of your nation's armed might.
Hellno, the current situation isn't perfect. What did you really expect after eight years of the Reign of Terror? We've got a lot tear-down to do, before we get a routine built that we like. Until then, wanna help us?
I have done telecom billing and LI in infrastructure gear. And law enforcement can track all calls and listen in on (at least) 1% of all calls. No need to plug anything in or visit the CO where the call is switched. Today taps are all automated.
ALL Internet traffic can be monitored. All modern backbone routers can duplicate all traffic at full speed. This is not to say all traffic is monitored, but it is totally do-able.
I say give him all the *POWER* he needs!
What's the solution then? More federal government? We know how well that works out.
among the purposes of the Federal Government, as stated in the Preamble, is "To Provide For The Common Defense". And those kind of people, whether you acknowledge it or not, DO occupy the uniforms of your nation's armed might.
Our armed forces are not the ones charged with keeping the illegals out of the country or working the gates at the airport or keeping track of who comes here to "study" and then conveniently don't leave the country when they finish/quit school, or putting together patterns that indicate something is going to happen. Those are the jobs of various federal agencies (which are under the umbrella of the Department of Homeland Security now but still have the same jobs).
Our armed forces have done a tremendous job of guarding our nation's borders (the War of 1812 not withstanding), and I don't just say that because I used to serve either.
The various federal agencies screwed up bigtime in the 90s, both due to the PC restrictions imposed upon them by the clintons, and also just plain incompetence. I don't see that they should be rewarded with more power or money or an increase in manpower - hell nobody has really even been held accountable for 9/11. Putting aside the PC restrictions, there were several points in time where if an INS agent had done a little more follow-up, or various FBI managers had passed some info on up the chain or on to somebody who do something with the info, or even a few gate screeners had been more alert, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
I didn't miss the point at all - I understand that many in the current administration do hold themselves to a higher moral standard - probably close to the same moral standards and commmitment to the Constitution that you and I, and many others here hold ourselves to.
The problem is long term. I don't believe in setting up the foundation for something that can be abused and used against American citizens. I also believe that we had the tools in place before 9/11 to prevent a 9/11, just people in several agences dropped the ball - if we held them to a higher standard and a semblance of responsibility, then we wouldn't even be discussing this.
We saw how the clintons handled the FBI, the files, etc. Actually we probably didn't see everything, and that is just scary. Just imagine somebody like that with the PATRIOT ACT, etc.
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