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To: betty boop; RightWhale; Alamo-Girl; Phaedrus; Doctor Stochastic; Right Wing Professor; Physicist; ..
Order is statistical? Intrinsically??? Or is it that quantum epistemological technique requires us to "sample" nature through the mathematical sciences, preeminently statistics? But what is "really real": Nature -- the universe -- or statistics? Or is the "tool" we use -- statistics -- everything there is, or at least everything that "matters?"

IMHO, you absolutely need this epistemology. But the "complementary" of epistemology -- it seems to me -- is ontology.

Very well said, betty Jean. (I was responding to the previous sentence, not really to "Order is statisical.")

I suppose it could be said that mathematics is apt to play a part in describing order, therefore order is mathematical/statistical, somewhat like... geology is apt to play a part in describing a continent, therefore continents are geological. But the *nature* of a continent is much more than that, to humans --and to humans a contenent is most importantly, well, whatever it is to us.

So, I'd say in the same way, order is whatever it is, to those who behold or otherwise are engaged with it. They relate with it thus. Order like "stupid" is as order does and for whomever it does, and order is most, to the person(s) who is most conscious of and engaged with it.

That being the case, order relates most with and is defined most aptly by... (well, you know Who).

548 posted on 08/21/2003 5:35:24 PM PDT by unspun ("Do everything in love." | No I don't look anything like her but I do like to hear "Unspun w/ AnnaZ")
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To: unspun
Thank you so much, Brother A, for your beautiful "last" to me.
555 posted on 08/21/2003 6:12:24 PM PDT by betty boop (Bohr is brutally realistic in epistemological terms. -- Kafatos & Nadeau)
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To: unspun
That being the case, order relates most with and is defined most aptly by... (well, you know Who).

And that would mean that chaos and disorder relate most with, and are defined most aptly by..(well, you know).

This leads to the conclusion that anything we don't understand or can't recognize the order in must be evil. While I won't argue that there is a considerable historical precedent for such an outlook, I can't say I agree with it.

564 posted on 08/21/2003 7:49:38 PM PDT by tacticalogic (Controlled application of force is the sincerest form of communication.)
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To: unspun; betty boop
Thank you so much for the heads up to your discussion!
565 posted on 08/21/2003 8:00:32 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: betty boop
So, I'd say in the same way, order is whatever it is, to those who behold or otherwise are engaged with it. They relate with it thus. Order like "stupid" is as order does and for whomever it does, and order is most, to the person(s) who is most conscious of and engaged with it.

BTW, when I said this, I wasn't referring to order being defined by its human beholder, not relativism, just relationality, as per Reality.

568 posted on 08/21/2003 8:15:07 PM PDT by unspun ("Do everything in love." | No I don't look anything like her but I do like to hear "Unspun w/ AnnaZ")
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