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Martin's dog is moved for protection (Crooks have "contract" out on it)
The Telegraph - UK ^
| 31/07/2003
| David Sapsted
Posted on 07/31/2003 1:38:19 PM PDT by David Hunter
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To: MEGoody
Gypsies is an un-PC term for Romani people. Romani people are believed to have moved to Europe from India about 1000 years ago. Travellers is the standard name for nomadic irish groups. They share no common history with Gypsies. Words like "Tinkers" and "Knackers" have connotations like the N-word does in the United States. Both are used widely in Ireland. Travellers are a sizable chunk of Ireland's Population - maybe 3% or 4%. They have a reputation - mostly fairly earned - for fighting and thievery - however there are good and bad amoung the travellers too.
21
posted on
07/31/2003 2:07:27 PM PDT
by
Murtyo
To: David Hunter
Martin should let them kill his dog. This would turn the population against the criminal animal killers and bring PETA into the mix to denounce them.
Isn't it a bigger crime in England to kill a pet than to kill a human?
22
posted on
07/31/2003 2:19:23 PM PDT
by
Chewbacca
(No State shall make anything but gold and silver COIN a payment of debt. - Article 1, Section 10)
To: Paleo Conservative; Sparta; MadIvan; Blood of Tyrants; DBrow; WorkingClassFilth; ...
PING!
To: Chewbacca
You might be right. There was some public anger, but not enough, when the other burglar (a heroin dealer with over 30 criminal convictions) who was injured by Martin, threatened to sue for damages using free legal aid. Killing a defenceless animal would show people just how despicable these criminals are.
To: UnklGene; wafflehouse; TexasRepublic; Billthedrill; Rifleman; jjm2111; MissNomer; steve8714; ...
PING!
To: David Hunter
There is no constitution in Britain stopping Parliment from "Outlawing" the Travelers in the old meaning of the word, that is they would be outside the protection of any law and subject to death or enslavement at the hands of anyone who caught them.
The only thing stopping it is political cowardice.
So9
To: David Hunter
Circumstances similar to this existed in the bad old days in San Francisco. People raised on western movies tend to think Committees of Vigiliance to be a bad thing. It isn't necessarily so.
This community may well end up with such a committee if the authorities fail to respond to this situation. It's all very well to fantasize about catching the fellow killing the dog and thrashing him as an example to the others (Hollywood movies are full of this sort of thing), but it won't be an example, it will merely be an incentive for them to set their own example on the guy who did it, and they'll always have the advantage because (1) they have no fixed addresses, (2) they're used to criminal activity, and (3) they have more violent people available to them than the average citizen. In the U.S. a firearm is only a partial equalizer, as they learned in San Francisco. It's a breakdown and a failure of society that allows this situation, and it must be addressed on a collective level.
The reason that you always run into trouble with the authorities taking this approach is that one part of being an "authority" is possessing a monopoly on "legitimate" violence. Mr. Martin found that out the hard way.
To: Paul Atreides
Gypsies. They must be like that lowlife woman who was beating her kid senseless in the SUV a few months ago. They have a society like Gypsies, but they are Irish.
They are a clan of con men and thugs. They literaly own several small towns in the United States, and use them for bases in their wandering and plundering.
So9
To: David Hunter
Welcome back my friend.
29
posted on
07/31/2003 3:00:31 PM PDT
by
Sparta
(A liberal is a conservative minus logic and morals.)
To: wideawake
Is the child ok?
30
posted on
07/31/2003 3:02:56 PM PDT
by
diamond6
("Everyone who is for abortion HAS been born." Ronald Reagan)
To: Servant of the Nine
The lack of a constitution in Britain and the political cowardice of the left/liberal politicians is the reason Martin found himself in this predicament in the first place.
The British government will never "outlaw" any group, other than self-confessed terrorists, because that wouldn't be cricket in this day and age. Instead, they will just pass another set of useless gun laws and probably more limits on a citizen's already fragile right to self defence.
I heard a whiney liberal politician on the radio the other day saying how the Martin case showed the need for more restrictions on gun ownership. These liberal morons need a few violent thugs to break into their houses a few times, then we'll see how they feel about a citizen's right to defend themselves and their property with force.
To: Billthedrill
I agree with what you have written about professional criminals having the advantage over the law abiding citizenry, even when the citizenry get organised and turn nasty. However, there would be a political advantage to a vigilante like organisation getting involved in this case.
The formation of an pseudo-vigilante organisation, even one that doesn't actually take any action other than "talking the talk" and being highly vocal in the media, together with support from middle class respectable British people is likely to cause the arrogant British government to reverse its tradition of ignoring the victims of robbery and burglary and with any luck to rethink its policy on self defence.
Nothing will happen if another householder, or a hundred, are convicted for defending themselves against burglars under similar circumstances, they will just be prosecuted by the same worthless idiots that Martin was. What's needed is someone to start rocking the boat, to frighten the government into enacting more right wing/libertarian style policies.
To: David Hunter
I agree. Throwing the bums out of office is the normal recourse in a democratic society. Perhaps a vigorous, grass-roots publicity campaign on the line of "we're mad as hell and we're not going to take it any more" might bear fruit? It will have to be local, though - the ones pushing the criminal coddling policies are, by and large, safe in their offices in a city far away.
To: David Hunter
England is the home of the long bow, isn't it? Are crossbows legal there? In any case, both should be fairly easy to fabricate with a modest supply of hand tools and skill. Here's some help to get things started:
http://www.cambiumbooks.com/books/sporting_goods/0-946323-14-3/ Good luck, Mr. Martin. If you have any inkling to leave your socialist paradise, come to the USA for the last stand of civilization.
To: David Hunter
Little bastards.
35
posted on
08/01/2003 7:28:30 AM PDT
by
jjm2111
To: David Hunter
If it required cobbling up a raft to escape England, I would. Any reason there has been turned upside-down and inside-out. OK, what are legal implications there if the travellers beat Mr. Martin to death with a stunned cat?
To: Billthedrill
Perhaps a vigorous, grass-roots publicity campaign on the line of "we're mad as hell and we're not going to take it any more" might bear fruit?The problem is the current Labour government has a history of ignoring even the largest and best planned campaigns and marches. Look how much notice they took of the countryside alliance march last year and the "stop the war" march, which incidentally was the largest march in British history, (not that I agree with the latter of course).
Even the British Conservative party are soft on criminals and hostile to empowering the public to use realistic force (and certainly not armed force) to stop criminals. The establishment of a high profile vigilante like organisation would send a message to the government, and the Torys, that either the state must solve this problem or victims will band together in groups and take the law into their own hands. Such an organisation would have the added benefit of keeping this issue in the public eye and stopping it from just disappearing once the Martin fiasco stops making headlines.
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