MSNBC: Admiral Poindexter to Resign

MSNBC | July 31, 2003

[af_vet_rr]

Was there a part of TIA that was worthwhile?

TIA would have been very worthwhile to the democrats. Make it easier for them to know if we bought "dangerous" things like ammunition and the like.

Ask yourself if TIA would have prevented 9/11 (here's a hint, putting aside blunders by the government, quite a bit of the prepartions done by the 9/11 hijackers apparently involved cash and third parties).

[FairOpinion]

"I've been on the bandwagon from the beginning, when he first wanted to collect data on all American citizens."

---

THAT wasn't true either, it was also "Dems + Media Hype".

What they wanted to do is use models to predict patterns, NOT collect data on everyone.

E.g. there are millions of people buying millions of things.

Suppose they establish a possible terrorist profile, that they:
a) buy one way airline tickets
b) buy the ticket for cash
c) rent a car with cash
d) buy books on bomb making
e) buy books on Islam
etc., etc.

What the software would have done, is to see if there are people who fit all of the above, THEN pull that person's name & info, all the rest of the people who did only one or two of these things wouldn't even get any attention paid to them and people who did none of these, would be totally ignored. It is very different from checking on all law abiding people.

[Timesink]

Poindexter to resign in wake of terror market flap

Posted 7/31/2003 2:11 PM     Updated 7/31/2003 2:18 PM

WASHINGTON (AP) — Retired Adm. John Poindexter will resign his position at the Pentagon after a research project he was overseeing was condemned by Congress as an "egregious error of judgment."

A senior defense official said Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Poindexter realized that "it would be difficult" for him to continue in his job after the flap over a plan to establish a futures market that would have allowed traders to profit by correctly predicting assassinations and terrorist strikes in the Middle East. (Related story: Pentagon cancels threat-bet program.)

He said Rumsfeld did not ask for his resignation but that Poindexter was "working through the details" and "expects to offer" it within a few weeks.

The project was disclosed Monday by Democratic Sens. Ron Wyden of Oregon and Byron Dorgan of North Dakota. Criticism mounted Tuesday. Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman John Warner, R-Va., later announced he had an agreement from defense officials to end the project.

Warner had spoken by telephone with Tony Tether, head of the Pentagon's Defense Research Projects Agency (DARPA), where Poindexter works. Warner called the program "a rather egregious error of judgment."

DARPA and two private partners would have set up an Internet futures trading market on events in the Middle East. Traders could have bought and sold futures contracts based on their predictions about what would happen in the region. Examples given on the market's Web site included the assassination of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat and a biological weapons attack on Israel.

Senators had called for Poindexter's resignation.

Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., said Tuesday that there was "something very sick about it."

"And if it's going to end, I think you ought to end the careers of whoever it was thought that up. Because terrorists knowing they were planning an attack could have bet on the attack and collected a lot of money. It's a sick idea," she said.

DARPA has been criticized by Congress for its Terrorism Information Awareness program, a computerized surveillance program that has raised privacy concerns. Poindexter also is the head of that program.

In the 1980s he was national security adviser to President Reagan. He was a key figure in the 1980s Iran-Contra scandal.

[UncleJeff]

TIA was a massive invasion of EVERYBODY'S privacy, and would inevitably have been compromised, like weapon's technology and missile technology and satellite...

The terrorism futures market, by providing anonymity to traders, amounted to a creative financing scheme for terrorists and assassins. If it's such a great idea let the private sector do it, but the gov't has no business helping terrorists bankroll their next outrage.

[VRWC_minion]

I thought the idea made sense. It provided an anonymous way to inform us.

[FairOpinion]

"THINK outside the box....and then get fired (resign?....sure!) Sickening! "

---

Especially since he worked for a RESEARCH organization. If you get punished for coming up with creative ideas in a research organization, we are doomed.

[xm177e2]

Terror Futures is a good idea, but it should not be carried out by our government. Betting on when the King of Jordan bites the dust is not very neighborly.

[UncleJeff]

There has to be someone between Research and Implementation who can (and will) say "Interesting theory, but not on my watch."

That didn't happen.

[freeeee]

What they wanted to do is use models to predict patterns, NOT collect data on everyone.

I've got a bridge to sell you.

[Timesink]

Terror Futures is a good idea, but it should not be carried out by our government. Betting on when the King of Jordan bites the dust is not very neighborly.

We should start our own FR betting pools! I got $5 on Saddam being found by Tuesday morning!

[FairOpinion]

You apparently ignore or are unaware that there are plenty of commercial data basis with all your and everyone else's private information -- if you buy anything with credit cards, use a grocery store discount card, make phone calls, it's all in a data base. They know when you bought your TV, how many six packs of beer you bought, not to mention real private items, your credit history is in a data base, when you bought your house and how much you paid for it, your net assets and where you have them, your medical information is in a data base. And anyone can purchase that information.

[UncleJeff]

TIA would have had to have all that info in a database to sort it to begin with.

You cannot screen what you do not first collect. Once the gov't HAS the data it will get used in unintended ways.

[FairOpinion]

When are Republicans and even the Bush administration STOP rolling over for the Democrats?!

I am outraged. All the Democrats have to do is come up with the tiniest thing, lie about it, misrepresent it, then have the media turn it into a big flap and people apologize and resign over it.

Just also think of the Niger uranium deal -- the Bush administration "admitted" to all kinds of things, instead of standing firm that Bush's statement was 100% correct, which it was.

[Betty Jo]

Research agency?

It was a United States of America Department of Defense "agency".

[freeeee]

You apparently ignore or are unaware that there are plenty of commercial data basis with all your and everyone else's private information

"Hey mom, the kitchen is on fire!"

"Well in that case, throw a match on the couch..."

[Timesink]

When are Republicans and even the Bush administration STOP rolling over for the Democrats?!

I wish I knew, but at least it appears that the Administration and the GOP aren't paying a political price for it. The latest polls show the RATS are in bigger trouble than ever.

I am outraged. All the Democrats have to do is come up with the tiniest thing, lie about it, misrepresent it, then have the media turn it into a big flap and people apologize and resign over it.

For what it's worth, and I know it's not much, note the media is reporting that Rummy didn't ask for Poindexter's resignation, though it seems likely that Poindexter knew that the pressure was on.

[UncleJeff]

I see a huge difference between what private companies do and what the gov't does. I can, to a large extent, control what effect companies or individuals getting that info has on me. I am not a terrorist, have never been a terrorist and do not intend to become a terrorist. My legal purchases, sales, reading material and Posts to FreeRepublic are none of the government's business.

Or John Poindexter's.

[FairOpinion]

DARPA =

The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA)
is the central research and development organization for the Department of Defense (DoD). It manages and directs selected basic and applied research and development projects for DoD, and pursues research and technology where risk and payoff are both very high and where success may provide dramatic advances for traditional military roles and missions.

http://www.darpa.mil/

[VRWC_minion]

those with expertise in the potential threats would not have participated

That is where you are wrong and it shows the beauty of the market. Those with better knowledge would buy from those with worse knowledge. In incentive for the knowledgeable to participate is because of the 7-11 crowd.

In fact those with direct knowledge of a potential event may try to make money.

I sure hope we have someone watching major short sales as an indicator.

[John Beresford Tipton]

"All the Democrats have to do is come up with the tiniest thing, lie about it, misrepresent it, then have the media turn it into a big flap"

"Your Majesty, all those freeking colonists did was come up with the tiniest things, lie about them, misrepresent them, then have a Revolutionary War, and now your Majesty, I hear they are installing a 'Bill of Rights'."