French tourism suffers sharp decline

Fox News ^ | 7/29/2003 | Brit Hume, Fox News

[George W. Bush]

Hume: "The French government now admits that American anger over its opposition to the war in Iraq is eating away at its tourist industry. But the damage may be even worse than the government is willing to say. The French Ministry of Tourism says the number of American tourists fell by 30% in the first quarter of this year. But the president of the French travel agents union tells The Scotsman newspaper that the number of Americans visiting France has actually fallen by as much as 80% so far this year."

[kallisti]

don't worry, the repeated knocking over of tombstones will convince foreign visitors to stay away.

[Psalm118]

Simpson's Groundskeeper Willy sez:

http://www.kcbx.net/~rloomis/simp63.wav

[George W. Bush]

Tell that to Lance Armstrong and Tyler Hamilton and the hundreds of fans that went to France to support them.

That's different. They went to beat the frogs and humiliate them and teach them their proper place in the world.

That's allowed. In fact, it's a patriotic duty.

[Steely Glint]

"Tell that to Lance Armstrong and Tyler Hamilton and the hundreds of fans that went to France to support them."

Happily. Since France has opnely declared itself to be our enemy, no American should ever again visit France - especially for a sporting event.

[Prodigal Son]

Since France has opnely declared itself to be our enemy, no American should ever again visit France - especially for a sporting event.

When did France do this? And secondly says who? Who says I shouldn't go and visit the country I please? You? Haha. You just keep spit shining your jack boots buddy- last time I looked, I was still a free person. If I want to go and lay flowers on the graves of the American soldiers buried in France or spend time with the French people that appreciate what a friend America has been to it, or go shopping on the Champs Elysees or watch the Tour de France- I will, proudly.

[Prodigal Son]

That's allowed. In fact, it's a patriotic duty.

That's allowed huh? Should I write to you in the future if I want to visit a foreign country to see if you approve? I'll travel where I please. Thanks for your input though. If you don't want to travel to France, maybe you shouldn't travel to France and let other free people decide for themselves where they should or shouldn't go.

[Steely Glint]

"When did France do this?"

Where were you during the last year? Under a rock?

"Who says I shouldn't go and visit the country I please?"

Not who but what: decency and patriotism.

"last time I looked, I was still a free person."

Keep supporting America's enemies like this and you won't be.

"If I want to go... - I will, proudly."

Be sure and "proudly" visit Iran and North Korea while you're at it.

[Psalm118]

"or go shopping on the Champs Elysees or watch the Tour de France- I will, proudly".

Proudly yes. Shopping...hmmm...check the Euro recently?

[Lael]

Somehow, I didn't see Cap d'Agde on the list...

[Prodigal Son]

Where were you during the last year? Under a rock?

Provide a link to back up your claim that France has declared itself to be our enemy. A State Dep't travel advisory perhaps?

decency and patriotism.

And if my wife or family are French? Should I not go and visit?

Keep supporting America's enemies like this and you won't be.

So let me get this straight. In your conservatively correct opinion, if I go and lay flowers on the grave of an American soldier in France, I am going to lose my freedom somehow?

Be sure and "proudly" visit Iran and North Korea while you're at it.

What has this coversation to do with Iran and North Korea? We are talking about France.

In your opinion, Lance Armstrong and the fans that travelled to France to support him- are they traitors? How about unAmerican? Is Lance unAmerican? And who gets the final say on this- you?

You make your choices and you do the things that you think are good for being an American. Let the rest of us make our own choices. Why would you even want to tell another person where they ought to travel? A free man certainly doesn't think like that.

BTW, if my wife and family are French, am I unAmerican? Should I not go to visit?

[CWOJackson]

Perhaps they should invite the Germans back.

[Prodigal Son]

Shopping...hmmm...check the Euro recently?

That's a good point. My pound is only getting me 1.42 Euros at the moment. Shopping on the Champs Elysees is silly anyway. You can tack at least 20% onto whatever you buy there that you could've gotten elsewhere in Paris.

[George W. Bush]

This is an American boycott of the French. Brits can do as they like though I understand there has been a minor boycott from Brits too.

Our absense in France has supposedly caused a price drop which many Brits have taken advantage of. I don't care much either way. It was America that France was trying to harm.

I think the stalling tactics of the French and Germans at the U.N. cost American and British lives in combat. It would have been safer and even quicker had they not tried to stop us in the U.N. I regard both as rival powers, if not outright enemies. We've played this game before with Euroweenies. We'll see how it works out.

[Prodigal Son]

This is an American boycott of the French.

By Presidential proclamation? How does that work exactly? Lance Armstrong didn't pay too much heed did he? He's a Texan too. I'm an American, nobody told me that I can't go to France any more or Germany. Half my family lives in Germany- am I not supposed to visit them? Am I supposed to divorce my wife because she's German? That's madness.

I think the stalling tactics of the French and Germans at the U.N. cost American and British lives in combat.

Which is exactly why the President had no business whatsoever going to the UN in the first place. The result was entirely predictable- why did he do this? Our Constitution doesn't say our President should go and grovel before the UN to ask permission to go to war. People are saying the French are our enemy because our President asked their (the French) permission to go to war and they refused to give it. Why was an American President pandering to the French in the first place?

My beef wasn't even with you in the first place but my point remains the same. If people want to boycott Winchester Rifles and Jameson whiskey to get at the French or not visit France, I say "More Power to 'em!". But don't tell me what I should do. Don't tell me I'm not a patriot if I want to travel or buy a Winchester rifle. (I realize you didn't say that- I'm just throwing it out there for GP).

[George W. Bush]

I'm an American, nobody told me that I can't go to France any more or Germany.

You're expatriate. This is well past the point where you should have realized that you're irrelevant to this discussion. And that Americans and their government are going to continue to punish and crush the socialist America-haters in France and Germany. So, live it up, Euro-boy. The French and German business classes already know what a disaster this has been for them. Soon, the working classes will know as well. But the lesson won't stop there. We're going to crush Euro-socialism. They attracted our attention and demanded some behavior correction this time. We should have done it decades ago but it was in the interests of our arms industry to let them be a pack of NATO leeches. But that's no longer true. Time to put them in their places.

But don't tell me what I should do. Don't tell me I'm not a patriot if I want to travel or buy a Winchester rifle. (I realize you didn't say that- I'm just throwing it out there for GP).

I don't think anyone ever said any such thing to you. Not that I'd care anyway.

What, you're like 17 years old, looking for a mommy/daddy to rebel against?

[Prodigal Son]

So, live it up, Euro-boy... You're expatriate.

No, I'm not. I am an American. Period. It's not for you to say I am not. Europe is only a short thing for me. No plans to stay. Africa, South America, Australia, America- all on the agenda. I am on a lifetime round the world vacation. Problems with that? Tough. It isn't for you to say whether I am or am not a REAL American or whether I am relevent to a discussion. I'm a member here just like you and a citizen just like you- no different. I pay my taxes, I served in my country's military. I carry an American passport. I am just as much American as yourself.

And that Americans and their government are going to continue to punish and crush the socialist America-haters in France and Germany.

Yep, every single one of them are American haters. This is all I'm talking about. Clinton was no more representative of the everyday American than Schroeder is of the every day German- or was he? Clinton stand for you? If, say Al Gore were to get elected in 2004 or Hillary- this is you right? This is what the rest of the world should assume you're all about?

We're going to crush Euro-socialism.

Good. Seriously. This could be one of the most meaningful things to happen in the 21st century. Then after we're finished with Euro socialism, we can tackle American socialism. Sounds like a plan.

I don't think anyone ever said any such thing to you.

Not true. Another poster on this thread said no American should go to France no matter what. That includes me. The person also said nobody would go to France if they were patriotic. That includes me. Another person figures we ought to boycott x amount of products and you mentioned the boycott so I sort of stupidly assumed you were talking to me. On that list is Winchester Rifles and Jameson whiskey. This is the boycott you were referring to- so in a sense you did say it as well.

[VOA]

Tell that to Lance Armstrong and Tyler Hamilton and the hundreds of fans that
went to France to support them.

I don't know the extent of this, but on one of the Tour threads, someone mentioned
that leave was liberalized a bit at US military installations so short
trips could be made to see the tour.

So, it COULD be that a fair number of those fans waving Old Glory as Lance/Tyler went past
didn't cross the Atlantic to see the event.

[George W. Bush]

Well, you can call it what you will. But you clearly are expatriate and plan to continue to be expatriate. That's your business. But, strictly speaking, expatriates are not patriots. Patriots live on American soil except when in the military.

This is all I'm talking about. Clinton was no more representative of the everyday American than Schroeder is of the every day German- or was he?

Nonsense. Clinton was well-known to have strong domestic opposition from the very beginning. Germany has nothing comparable. Their anti-Americanism is monolithic.

Countries like Britain and Korea had opposition to the Iraq war but they also had strong shows of support for America in their media, popular protests, political support for our position. Not so in France and Germany. And many countries which disapproved or were disinterested in Iraq didn't race off to the U.N. to try to restrain us. But France and Germany did.

But go ahead and defend them. It's not like I care. It's already too late. They've screwed der poochen and they're going to pay. There are no soft words or whimpering apologies or bowing and scraping to us now. We are going to repay them for what they did. The same goes for France, only double.

The person also said nobody would go to France if they were patriotic. That includes me.

They were right. France's opposition killed our soldiers in Iraq. It was deliberate. They celebrated every setback, the reports of Americans killed. They desecrated the American cemeteries in Normandy.

But, do go give them your money and call yourself a patriot. Lots of Dims call themselves patriots too.

But a real patriot makes sacrifices in the interest of his country. Keep that in mind when you give your money to the economies of the America-haters.

[Prodigal Son]

But you clearly are expatriate and plan to continue to be expatriate.

You don't have a clue about me. You might want to just shut up there while you're still ahead. You don't know my plans, don't know how often I visit the States or what my situation is. I am an American- exactly the same as you. Most of the time I have been overseas has been while in the military. An around the world vacation takes a bit of time. It is not for you to say how long my vacation needs to be. Get over yourself.

Patriots live on American soil except when in the military.

There are any number of reasons why an American might live abroad. What about AAFES workers in Germany? What about those teachers and professors who teach the American servicemen through the University of Maryland on overseas bases? What about exchange students? Specialists on long term research projects? It's not for you to say who is a patriot and who not. I can just as easily say you're not a patriot- my claim is just as legitimate as yours. I would not say that though- unlike you. It is not for me to keep an eye on my neighbors and decide who is "American enough" to suit my tastes although, knowing a bit about human nature, I can certainly understand why some people get a charge out of doing that very thing.

Clinton was well-known to have strong domestic opposition from the very beginning. Germany has nothing comparable.

The SPD didn't even get a majority of the vote. Their share of the vote was only marginally better than that of the conservative party in Germany and both got less than 50%. Fact.

We are going to repay them for what they did.

(eagerly) Watcha gonna do to them there French and Germans? Come on, you can tell me. I might help you. I don't like the French that much myself and I have a pretty good basis for it- I lived there for 8 months. Are we going to bomb 'em? Declare war on 'em? What? I'm all ears- seriously.

They were right. France's opposition killed our soldiers in Iraq.

So I want you to answer these questions. You're saying Lance Armstrong is unpatriotic? Are you saying that someone who has family in France is unpatriotic for visiting them? Are you saying if I go to France to lay flowers on the grave of an American soldier who is in my family, I am unpatriotic? Are you saying if I drive through France on my way from Portugal to Poland, I am unpatriotic? If you don't answer anything else, answer those, please.

France was able to delay us because our President basically asked them for permission to go to war. Why did he do that? Is it in our Constitution that the President should pander to the French? Why did he do it then? Don't ignore or try to gloss over that.

But, do go give them your money and call yourself a patriot.

I don't do charity. I don't give away my money. I buy products that I like, that are useful to me and that I choose according to criteria I set- not criteria my holier than thou neighbor sets. I like Jameson whiskey and Salomon boots and Winchester rifles. If I choose to buy these products it has nothing to do with patriotism at all- it is because I choose to buy these products. And buddy, I am a patriot.

But a real patriot makes sacrifices in the interest of his country. Keep that in mind when you give your money to the economies of the America-haters.

I have made sacrifices for you and the rest of my fellow Americans. Eight long years in the US Army Infantry. You sent me to Bosnia and Macedonia. I didn't want to go to those places- you sent me there. There was no national interest at stake, but you sent me there. You can't come back with "No, Clinton sent you there" - remember, all Americans get blamed for the actions of their leader. All citizens get lumped in with their leader's actions regardless of whether they agree with them or not- else you're supporting a double standard.

My wife, for example. Loves America. Wants to move there and live one day. Has always been her dream. But according to you, my wife and the rest of my family are America haters because the Germans were totally willing to send troops to Afhghanistan but not to Iraq. If my wife and family and friends get called America haters because of Schroeder, you get lumped in with Clinton.

Hey, this has been a nice conversation- one patriot to another. That is, I guess you're a patriot- you've never said. But, it is late here in the UK. I must get to bed. I will definitely check back in first thing in the morning though to see how you answered those questions. Toodle-loo!

[George W. Bush]

You might try some of the new psychiatric medications. I've read that they can work wonders.