The perfect IT Education? (IT/Nerd Alert)

[SlickWillard]

Here is the premises that this thread is based on (or at least what I hope for): That businesses whether large or small, public or private, well funded or not, are currently grappling with the issues of integrating technology. In all cases they face the fact that technology-related innovation tends to be adopted in a patchy fashion by an untrained or poorly trained staff. In addition, regardless of the level of resources available, those resources that do exist tend to be severely underutilized, or at least not utilized in the most effective ways. That is why I was wondering what you guys thought about the Perfect IT course design.

Speaking from the vantage point of a fair amount of experience in this endeavor, I think you should wake up from your quixotic fantasy and smell the coffee. Or the roses. Or whatever.

[BushCountry]

2. I'm confused by the combination of "Database programming; installation and maintenance of computer hardware." These are really unrelated topics.

I took a typical course offering off of the web at a large community college. I was actually was wondering about this, but did not want modify the program offering, since it serve as an example.

[dfwgator]

The first question I would ask any interviewee is "What is Fowler's First Law of Distributed Objects." If he answers it correctly, he's hired!!!

[BushCountry]

I taught for several years and realize that it is a quixotic fantasy and that I need to smell the coffee to think that things will change or improve. However, I actually got a lot of excellent ideas from this post.

[SlickWillard]

Must be able to solder and understand basic electronics

Not to sound like a broken record, but are you joking? The most technically advanced field troubleshooting I've ever heard of consists of removing all the PCI cards, flashing each to the latest bios, and putting them back in one by one [with the latest drivers] until the culprit is found [and if a culprit isn't found, then you swap out the mobo]. Same principles apply to VCRs, microwave ovens, televisions, 32 bit Compaq servers, and 64 bit IBM mainframes.

I haven't heard of someone soldering a piece of electronics since, like, maybe the Korean War [unless you count all those stereophile gearheads and their Soviet era vacuum tubes].

PS: Totally agree with you on the S-Corp stuff.

[Chad Fairbanks]

The First Law of Distributed Objects is DON'T distribute your objects LOL... trick question. I think I'll use that next time I interview someone

[Chad Fairbanks]

We solder all the time where I work.... so much old Korean War-era electronics still in use ;0)

[dfwgator]

Yep. I think part of the reason that so many systems fail is that there is too much "resume-driven" design by architects and programmers who feel the need to get the latest buzzwords on their resume.

[SlickWillard]

We solder all the time where I work.... so much old Korean War-era electronics still in use

Where do you work? At that big Carribean factory where they solder mod-chips on XBoxes? Or the one where they solder mod-chips on DirecTV receivers?

[BushCountry]

It is amazing how little networking people understand the electronics involved in transferring packets (wireless, cable or fiber) and how important it is to be spot on. An extremly large percent of network bandwidth preformance and connectivity problems have to do with cabling and lack of understanding of how networks communicate.

On another note: The Post below is getting a good response. Several Freepers here mentioned the importance of writing. :)

Writing well gets jobs, saves jobs
Seattle Times ^ | Sunday, July 27, 2003 | Pamela Sitt
Posted on 07/27/2003 9:18 AM PDT by ValerieUSA

People often tell Julie Miller: "E-mail's ruined me."

As a business-writing coach, Miller spends her time teaching professionals — architects, bankers, engineers, you name it — to write better, faster. And it appears that, increasingly, companies of all kinds are realizing the importance of the written word.

"Writing skills are a career-maker or breaker," Miller said. "There's no place to hide now, with everyone having access to a computer, because your writing is on display."

Good writing skills are especially important if you are looking for a job. In a tough economy, employers often are deluged with résumés and cover letters that make the first — and maybe last — impression.

[zeromus]

I mean, anyone can "learn VB in 21 days", but if they have no grounding in anything else, how good of a VB Programmer could they ever really be?

How good of a VB programmer do you need? If a bad one will get the job done for half the price...

[Chad Fairbanks]

Nah... I work for a medical device manufacturer that has proprietary embedded circuit boards, which are still in use and so we must maintain them until we get new hardware...

[The Great RJ]

I teach economics in a technical college that offers associate level IT traing and I also have an undergraduate certificate in web design. Bravo for the suggestion of requiring English composition and Literature. Many of my colleagues have the same reservations about training these students well technically, but not giving them at least some background in liberal arts.

I'd also throw in some type of serious art appreciation class--not just looking at art works and listening to music, but one that ephasizes pleasing design. I see too many web sites that are designed by tech heads, but lack any sense of design, ease of use or even logical organization.

[Lazamataz]

Training is far less important than experience.

[Chad Fairbanks]

Well, one who understands concepts of writing maintainable code would be nice... ;0)

[zeromus]

Well, one who understands concepts of writing maintainable code would be nice... ;0)

Does the client want to pay for maintainable code? Does the client want to underwrite your experiments in making lovely philosophically pretty systems that you would be happy to show to your coder friends?

I havent been in the industry wrong, but I so far I am ashamed of everything I write. There isn't time to do it right.

Of course, this may only be the case at the very bottom of the food chain... but isnt that where vb belongs?

[LibertyAndJusticeForAll]

Bank of America forced almost every American IT employee to train their Indian replacements by threatening them with the loss of their severance pay. They were then summarily fired. Someone I know in BofA said that he has been letting excellent IT programmers go every week. He was told 5 or 6 a week, not en masse.
You are the first to suggest, to my knowledge, that there is a quality problem with our IT programmers. There may be some inexperienced raw recruits that fit this description. But, that has NOTHING to do with the loss of jobs in IT.
Sun Microsystems fired all of their older and most experienced software engineers and replaced every one with young Indian H1B visa workers. Siemens did they same. There is a growing list of examples and no one has even hinted that the problem is with the quality of work.
Everyone in Silicon Valley was known for working tons of unpaid overtime. The American work ethic is not too blame either.

[djf]

Ya got a lotta purple-haired dudes out there sitting in front of keyboards for days at a time, couldn't code a binary sort if their life depended on it.

[af_vet_rr]

This is just a general comment, but the biggest problem in this country, are people who want the IT jobs, they go and read a few books, pass the Microsoft tests and voila, are instantly certified, regardless of how little experience they actually have.

Coming out of the military into the civilian world I've noticed this a lot more than many do. I have come across too many who on paper look qualified for the jobs they hold, but in reality, have less of a clue than somebody who has been working in IT or around computers for years and never got the certs or degrees.

[zeromus]

The problem is that the discipline is not as esoteric as it used to be. One day it may primarily be a generic entry-level non-degree job for 18yr old high school graduates with no knowlege whatsoever--like fast food, say--and I do not think that is not an admirable goal. The best computer scientists ought to be striving to make their necessity obsolete. Perhaps theyre doing a good job.