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To: betty boop
Neo lives! and he is in Hungary

"He then criticises this interpretation by reference to existing pagan folk customs (descriptions of which tend to resemble the shamanpunk concerts). Grandpierre seeks to demonstrate that the shaman does not call on powers beyond himself but more exactly on powers that he himself possesses: with the imperative call of his chant, “the shaman’s text magically comes true and transforms him [the shaman]. By speaking the text and performing the actions marked in the text, the shaman heightens his own dispositional, emotional readiness”(p. 92). [And presumably communicates and shares that experience with others.]"

Jung, Neitzche and Rock and Roll! "Riders on the storm...."

Just today I replied to an email regarding the miscreant, narcissitic, guru pastor of a church fellowship in which I've been involved:

Alas, an expert counterfeiter will become more apt at conveying the designs of truth than most, who dispassionately and unintently regard the truth honestly. That is a horrible and outrageous observation, but outrageously accurate I think and descriptive of much "lukewarm" church life.

7 posted on 07/26/2003 5:31:58 PM PDT by unspun ("Do everything in love." | No I don't look anything like her but I do like to hear "Unspun w/ AnnaZ")
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To: betty boop
Pardon the misspellings.

BTW, I suspect there will be some good work for Christians to do, in bringing some of these Hungarians to their Great Physician, after they've come through their consentual psychic scourgings in this movement. Many will suffer beyond hope, if this is like most such movements large and small, but some may be triaged.
8 posted on 07/26/2003 5:37:00 PM PDT by unspun ("Do everything in love." | No I don't look anything like her but I do like to hear "Unspun w/ AnnaZ")
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To: unspun
Alas, an expert counterfeiter will become more apt at conveying the designs of truth than most, who dispassionately and unintently regard the truth honestly.

Agreed, Brother Arlen. One can hardly tell what is counterfeit and what is real anymore.

But in dealing with questions of truth, dear brother, where there seems to be a conflict of possible interpretations, I just naturally assume that whatever truth can become socially effective at any time, in any age, is the product of human thinking, as resolved along the lines of God-given (and sanctioned) natural human experience, tuned to the needs of that age. Which is just to say, perhaps, that I trust in human reason, because it is divinely ordained.

To say age-specific "tuning" might appear helpful from time to time is not to say that God's universal laws (moral and natural) have been suspended, or that they can be "bent" by gratuitous human wishing. That does not then make it so that divine law has been excised on grounds of being no longer relevant to human concerns. Quite the contrary.

Instead, I declare axiomatically, that such are ever and always the prime human concerns, for the reason that God has declared it so. Else man cannot be man, just another brute....

I would ask you to consider this possibility.... The way I see it, this isn't tantamount to "selling out to Satan." What this is all about is reminding Satan that he cannot work outside of his own effective sphere of competence....

I think that sort of thing is well worth doing, as often as possible, these days. FWIW

9 posted on 07/26/2003 7:15:36 PM PDT by betty boop (We can have either human dignity or unfettered liberty, but not both. -- Dean Clancy)
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