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To: GOPcapitalist
You claim to be an expert on precisely how many black troops were in the United States Army and Navy during the Civil War yet give credence to absurdities such as black rebel soldiers. Further, while you count white rebels from the non-CSA states in the Confederate ranks as southerners, you do not count blacks from non-CSA southerner states in the Unions ranks.

To gain some credibility on this subject, read Lincoln's Loyalists by Richard N. Current.
74 posted on 07/23/2003 7:20:09 PM PDT by Grand Old Partisan (You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
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To: Grand Old Partisan
... yet give credence to absurdities such as black rebel soldiers

Unfortunately for you many are documented. Pension records, service & Official Records, eyewitness accounts abound the testify to the truth. Even in the Slave Narratives there are accounts of ex-slaves professing to their service to the Confederacy. Those facts might not agree with your mythological assertions, but they are documented, and refute your inane position. You denigrate the memories of those men that fought for their country. Your village is calling.

89 posted on 07/23/2003 8:34:23 PM PDT by 4CJ (Dims, living proof that almost everywhere, villages are missing their idiot.)
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To: Grand Old Partisan
You claim to be an expert on precisely how many black troops were in the United States Army and Navy during the Civil War

I make no claims of expertise on those numbers. I simply looked up the easily accessable records of the United States Government and found that the grand total from ALL sections of the country is about 178,000. I also looked up the breakdown by state and the south makes up only about 50% of those, not the 200,000 number you frequently pull out of thin air and post as if it were fact.

yet give credence to absurdities such as black rebel soldiers.

Both confederate and union records indicate that there were as do many corroborated historical accounts. To deny that they existed or call their existence an "absurdity" is to fib about historical fact.

Further, while you count white rebels from the non-CSA states in the Confederate ranks as southerners

I don't believe I've made any specific claims of soldier counts for the south, CSA and non-CSA states included. Most historians put the grand total somewhere in the 800K to 1.2M range but due to lack of records on the confederate side precise numbers are difficult to know. As for the counts by state, it seems that the fairest way is to tabulate first by non-border and non-contested states. That generally means that the starting totals for both sides should exclude Missouri, Kentucky, and Maryland where the populations split both ways. Excluding those three states, the northern ones went almost entirely northern and the southern ones went almost entirely southern.

you do not count blacks from non-CSA southerner states in the Unions ranks.

Uh, yes I do. There were about 178,000 blacks TOTAL from ALL states in the yankee ranks. Roughly one half of those were from the CSA proper. BOTH numbers are less than your absurd claim of 200,000, which not only exceeds by double the number of southern blacks in the union army but also exceed the TOTAL number of northern black troops from ALL states. It is therefore a false statistic.

To gain some credibility on this subject, read Lincoln's Loyalists by Richard N. Current.

No need to. I can just as easily look to the official records themselves and find that your numbers are wrong. If you desire credibility of your own I advise that you similarly look to those records. The yankee military records survived the war intact and are easy to tabulate. Add them up and you get about 178,000 blacks total.

105 posted on 07/23/2003 10:31:01 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist
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