Between jobs?
You could say that.
Posted on 07/23/2003 9:27:50 AM PDT by Theodore R.
Libertarians eye Wyoming for relocation of 20,000
By Ilene Olson Published in the Wyoming Tribune-Eagle
CHEYENNE – Wyoming’s low population and conservative mentality have put the state in a prime position be the target destination for 20,000 Libertarians as part of the party’s Free State Project.
“We like Wyoming,” said Keith Carlsen, spokesman for the project. “It’s not only a beautiful state, but it has the lowest population. It’s easier to persuade less people.
“Wyoming is one of the most pro-freedom, independent-minded states in the country,” Carlsen said.
But Gov. Dave Freudenthal said Libertarians “are overestimating the receptivity of their ideas in the state.”
And local economist Dick O’Gara warns that an influx of 20,000 people could put a burden on the state’s employment system and cause unemployment to rise.
As of Friday, 4,703 Libertarians had signed up nationwide to participate in the project. Literature on the Free State Project describes it as a plan in which 20,000 or more liberty-oriented people will move to one state and work within its political system to reduce the size and scope of its government by two-thirds.
One-fifth of the project’s members are retired, with most of the remaining members in their 20s and 30s, he said. Carlsen, who stopped off in Cheyenne during a publicity trip through Wyoming this week, is 21.
A vote on which of 10 states identified as possible homes for the movement will begin Friday and continue through Aug. 15, Carlsen said. In addition to Wyoming, those states are Alaska, Delaware, Idaho, Maine, Montana, New Hampshire, North Dakota, South Dakota and Vermont.
“We’re not actually going to move until we have 20,000 people,” he said. While plans call for membership to swell to that number by 2006, “I think we can do it in two years,” Carlsen said.
After that, the members will move to the selected state within five years.
Carlsen said Wyoming and New Hampshire are the unofficial favorites so far.
Selling points for Wyoming include the state’s lack of an anti-hate crimes bill and the Wyoming Supreme Court’s recent ruling that bars cannot be sued for continuing to serve already inebriated customers, even if they go on to cause a fatal car crash afterward.
Those are indicators that political correctness has not infiltrated the state’s government, Carlsen said.
A report co-authored by Carlsen says, “This is a state that consistently responds to candidates advocating a small government agenda.”
But another report by Greg Garber and Peter Saint-Andre notes that “Wyoming’s government sector is a bit larger than one would desire,” with 22 percent of the state’s population working for federal, state or local governments.
That report said the archetypical Wyoming resident “is characterized by the various meanings of the word ‘ornery.’ This can mean obstinate, cantankerous, obstructionist, resentful and revengeful, or independent, individualistic, non-conformist, and strong-minded.
“Over the years, outsiders (particularly Easterners used to the snarls of city dwellers), have fallen in love with the good, sweet, innocent, lovable, open-handed sons and daughters of the West, only to find out later that there’s hard rock underneath. Things like loyalty, respect, consideration and instant handy response to emergencies and disaster are embedded in the rock too.”
Carlsen’s report touts Wyoming’s lack of personal or business state income taxes. It also cites the state’s rating as “America’s Wealth-Friendliest State” by Bloomberg, and its ranking by the Tax Foundation as the state with the most business-friendly tax climate.
In addition, the Republican Liberty Caucus considers Wyoming’s congressional and legislative delegations to be the most libertarian in the nation for both fiscal and social issues, the report says.
Carlsen cited examples such as U.S. Sen. Mike Enzi, R-Wyo., who was the only senator to vote against a recent trade restriction bill, and state Rep. Keith Goodenough, D-Casper, who voted against a tax on cigarettes during the 2003 Legislature and is pushing to legalize marijuana in the state.
“Can we win in Wyoming?” the report asks, then answers with “a resounding yes.”
Free State Project members “could build a majority by capturing a mere 57 seats among … the smallest districts of all our candidate states. Elections are so cheap in Wyoming that the Wyoming U.S. House and Senate elections cost less than 25 percent as much as the same elections in New Hampshire,” the report said.
Freudenthal disagreed with that logic.
“I do think they’re picking out a few things and reading more into them. They see them as much greater bellwethers of opinion than the average citizen does,” he said.
In a separate report, Carlsen predicts that finding jobs won’t be a problem for the 20,000 people the project would relocate to the selected state.
Because 20 percent of the people in the project are retired or will soon be retired, only about 15,000 would need jobs, he said.
Carlsen writes that many of the project’s members are single.
“Chances are high, that if these single members marry, they will marry other Free State Project members or citizens of the selected state.” Some of those families are likely to choose to live off one income, he said.
In addition, a large number of Free State Project members are self-employed, with another group working through the Internet, he said.
Additional jobs are available within 100 miles of the state’s borders for professionals who feel the drive is worth it, he added.
Carlsen says in the report that moving 20,000 people into any state will create new jobs and demand for services.
“By the time the move to the selected state is being completed, 1,000 to 3,000 jobs will have been created simply because of our moving to the selected state,” he said.
In addition, “as many as thousands of us will be elected to office,” Carlsen writes. “Many of these public office jobs are full-time jobs with full-time pay. Once in office, we will begin to reduce regulations and business restrictions.
“This will open up, potentially, thousands of new jobs for the taking. The selected state will turn into the Free State and become a per-capita powerhouse” regardless of which state is selected, he said.
O’Gara, director of the Center for Economic and Business Data at Laramie County Community College, called that assertion “laughable.”
O’Gara said an influx of 20,000 people in the state is more likely to create a rise in unemployment than many additional jobs.
“There would be some truth to that on the retirement side, where people have existing incomes. They’re in a position to buy homes.”
The rest are job keepers and are looking for income. They’re not going to be generating jobs.
“Either the unemployment rate will soar, or they are going to displace existing workers. My guess is that the majority will not have the job skills we’re looking for, and that most of them will have to take a wage/salary cut if they move to Wyoming,” O’Gara said. “The cost of living may be higher than they are anticipating, especially in terms of housing.”
“We’re barely holding our own when it comes to any job creation,” O’Gara said. “It would probably take them 10 years to get 20,000 people in here.
“It is extremely remote that this will ever materialize,” he said of the entire project.
Though he disagrees with the logic behind the Free State Project, Freudenthal said the Libertarians are free to move forward with it.
“They’re entitled to their opinions and whatever actions as long as they operate within the laws,” he said. “It’s a free country.”
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I do not question this assertion. I was referring to those among us in this forum who claim to be interested in limited government then scoff at the notion when someone actually tries to do something about it. There is plenty of evidence of this on any FSP thread on FR as well as the libertarian threads and the threads criticizing the reign of big government since the GOP took over the steering wheel. It is obvious that there are plenty of people who love government in its modern incarnation they just don't like Democrats. That is the amazing state of the modern conservative movement. I'm just hoping that there is enough true blue conservatives left to join libertarians in making one State free.
Between jobs?
Sure, but there's understandable scepticism about either the chances of FSP success, which I think improve with each and every porcupine that adds their own effort to the momentum, or the liklihood that their hopes won't be co-opted and corrupted as others have. I've seen snide comments at other FReep threads on the FSP that had a basis in fact, and that got turned into useful reflection with a less loaded phrasing of the same question on some FSP forums and asking what we were going to do about it. When FReepers hand ya' lemons, make lemonade.
There is plenty of evidence of this on any FSP thread on FR as well as the libertarian threads and the threads criticizing the reign of big government since the GOP took over the steering wheel. It is obvious that there are plenty of people who love government in its modern incarnation they just don't like Democrats.
Absolutely, as well as those who don't much care which party is in power, so long as their paychecks/ monthly retirement payoff keeps coming in. And much of that grumbling will be directed at every course of political action under the sun, not just FSPers or libertarians, though those that have any potential for upsetting their personal applecarts will catch most of their wrath... particyularly those that suggest REAL downsizing of governmental employees.
That is the amazing state of the modern conservative movement. I'm just hoping that there is enough true blue conservatives left to join libertarians in making one State free.
All sorts, including reformed Democrats as well- Ronald Reagan comes to mind. But even if the FSP movement does not attract many conservative followers, if successful even partially, it could inspire conservative imitation, and may put the scare into a few RINOs. That too would be a worthy accomplishment.
Between jobs?
You could say that.
That was one of the reasons I was one of the supporters of the idea that the initial FSP effort be followed as soon as immediately practical by a second and third state effort so that all the FSP eggs would not be in one basket. Most probably, that'd be a second [then third] location far seperated from the initial effort, probably one in the US west and the other among the candidate states on the Eastern Seaboard. But the decision was made to focus all effort and limited resources into the initial effort, for now, at least.
But it's their business and I have no right to tell them where to live and nor would I ever do so. I just hope they have really thought this through.
No right to tell us, perhaps, but your interest and outside-the-fence interest is both useful and appreciated, so please continue to call 'em as you see 'em. But I too share your concerns, and quite a few porcupines have hedged our bets with a western fallback option, just in case.
I must admit that I really do admire your patience and civility with some of the idiots that show up on these threads.
Exactly what do you mean by "direct action"?
Most of them despise children. A state full of libertarians would be a state filled with W.C. Fields-types: dopin', tokin', drinkin', pornin', and sodomizin.'
A real heaven on earth, you betcha. Folks just exulting in "freedom" like a dog rolling in a stench-filled carcase.
It does have a certain anarcho-mau-mau sound to it.
I'm sure your ancestors said the same thing to the Pigrims on the Mayflower. Or to the Irish, German, Italian, etc. immigrants.
What? With the 'pro-abortion, pro-homo, pro-drug', crap you posted? Gimme a break. To be "pro" anything requires one to actively advocate something, not just passively allow it, just as being 'anti' something means that one activley opposes something instead of passivley allowing it.
I wouldn't call you "pro" truth or "pro" freedom, however.
Is there anything more restraining to "freedom", as a Libertarian defines it, than a child? Besides, when the socialists spew their "for the childrun" propaganda, I'll bet that makes the Libertarians hate them even more.
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