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To: IloveLisa
>>>> Hitler was LEFT wing (National Socialist!!!!, you know, like HILLARY!!!) NOT right wing like Reagen or Rush.

We see this argument often on FR, but it's only true in the sense that Hitler had toyed with other ideologies before choosing national socialism. The word "socialism" is just a word here. Yes, he had government programs for everything, and yes, his government was oppressive. However, his core political direction was reactionary and patriotic. In Germany, he was regarded as being on the right (within its political spectrum) and political science will continue to see Hitler as being on the right forever.

The point that Hitler was a statist does not make him "left" of center, nor does his socialized form of government.

I think people on FR should be proud to be "pro America" and "pro American" form of government. That makes us right wing, but it does not in any way make us fascist. Fascism here would involve more government, not less. That would still be right wing if it were predicated on patriotism and "bringing back the good old days." Reaction is politics on the right, but it can be constructive or destructive.

Also, there are many progressive ideas now on the right in America. After more than 70 years of socialism and statism, the right is asking for change. Perhaps we want the good old days from before the growth of big government to handle the Great Depression, but I think we want something new and better. We are on the side for "change."

I think accusing Hitler of being a leftist comes out of shame at being accused of being Nazis. That's not necessary! The ones accusing us of being fascist are the ones with the least blame. Just take the case of gun control. Right wing fascists immediately disarm their subjects, but so do leftists, whose inspiration is Stalin whether they'll admit it or not. Politics is a complex hybrid, not some simple "everything bad is on the left" formula. Both bad and good can emerge on the right.

Another way to see this is from the perspective of politics in China. During Mao's revolution, he was on the left. To hold power, he turned to the right, and conservatives in that context were "right wing communists." Now the spectrum is reversed and according to Michael Ledeen (see http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/31 ), we have fascism in China because the revolution had devolved into a statist capital engine with the sole purpose of generating funds for a military and economic engine for world dominance.

The terms right and left only explain so much.

The terms left and right are relative to the current state, the current time, and the currently prevailing ideologies.
24 posted on 07/22/2003 7:44:10 PM PDT by risk
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To: risk
>>>> The ones accusing us of being fascist are the ones with the least blame.

Least immunity from blame, I mean.
25 posted on 07/22/2003 7:46:06 PM PDT by risk
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To: risk
I've seen it put that the Left is revolutionary while the right is reactionary. I think both the left and the right are subject to reactionary behavior. To associate reaction with conservatives is wrong. Conservatives tend not to be the ones who run out into the streets to set fires and break windows when they don't like something.
35 posted on 07/22/2003 9:28:29 PM PDT by virgil
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