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Laid-Off Factory Workers Find Jobs Are Drying Up for Good
The Wall Street Journal ^ | Monday, July 21, 2003 | CLARE ANSBERRY

Posted on 07/21/2003 6:40:22 AM PDT by TroutStalker

Edited on 04/22/2004 11:49:29 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

BUTLER, Pa. -- The two Karenbauer brothers and their cousin, Danny Mottern, have worked alongside each other for much of their lives. Working with their hands comes naturally to all three. As young boys they were dispatched to feed the cows and plant corn on their grandfather's 134-acre farm.


(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Front Page News
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To: Only1choice____Freedom
I left off the /sarcasm - sorry.

I caught it.
Just like you caught the underlying theme in these posts. Unions are a leftist tool. Of course they will try and blame the GOP for the problems they've created. They don't want their members turning their gaze in their direction as the cause of their problems. They will incite them against Bush, or anybody but themselves.

41 posted on 07/21/2003 9:41:44 AM PDT by KDD
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To: KDD
Labor unions destroy any feeling of employer-employee goodwill.

By the time workers get so desparate that they ask a for a union, management has usually done the destroying. Remember, the only thing worse than a union is management that is bad enough for the workers to want to be represented by a union.

BTW, that lawsuit you reference is from 2000. Since there are no follow-ups listed on the AK web site, I guess it was thrown out of court? Also, I'm sure you know, anyone can file a lawsuit about anything. Just because a lawsuit has been filed, that isn't proff that any laws were broken.

42 posted on 07/21/2003 9:42:45 AM PDT by TopDog2 (Deer are the spawn of satan! Wipe them out!!)
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To: Only1choice____Freedom
In the accounting "industry", technology has wiped out more jobs than outsourcing over the past 15 years. When I got back into accounting 15 years ago (man, that's hard to believe--seems like yesterday), I went to work for a small firm that had 3 partners, two staff accountants, and two clerical personnel. Less than six years later (when I was laid off), it was a one-partner and secretary/receptionist shop. One partner retired, and the other started her own practice, with her mother answering the phone.

No longer were manual accounting ledgers being used, or income tax returns being prepared manually. Most of the routine, tedious tasks were now automated through tax/accounting software and electonic spreadsheets.

My point in this is that to not just survive, but prosper, it's going to take a lot of work on the individual's part to be proficient in a variety of tasks. Nobody promised us that life would be easy, only life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

It took me more than 15 years after I left the Army to find my 'dream job'. Along the way there were hirings, firings, lay-offs, crappy jobs, decent jobs, decent bosses, crappy bosses, plus a 600+ mile relocation.

Living in a right-to-work state (Texas), I know that my dream job could be terminated tomorrow, with no recourse. Guess what? The very next day I'd be at Accountemps taking whatever contract work they had at $20-25 an hour, and working nights at Bank of America sorting checks at $10 an hour. I'd do this until my CPA practice had grown to sustain me full-time.

My memories of my temp assignments are quite fond, actually. There was a great deal of variety, and they seemed to appreciate the work I did for them. I'll admit that there were no health or insurance benefits, but I knew that going in.

As for tax returns being outsourced to India, that's a marketing opportunity for me!

Sorry for the rant, this is just my take.

43 posted on 07/21/2003 9:52:24 AM PDT by Night Hides Not
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To: Bon mots
In an automated factory, wage differentials and indeed wage costs can amount so only some 10% of the cost of most industrial goods.

Point noted.

The real killers are confiscatory taxation, regulation, insurance (cost of litigation and liability).

The cost of litigation and liability for product reasons should be unchanged no matter where the good is produced.

Medical Insurance costs in the USA are another heartbreaker, Milton Friedman described this scam many years ago.

What you say might well be true but I for one do not think adopting China's medical system is going to be an improvement. The Constitutional means for equalizing differing wages and other costs among nations is a tariff. The USA had protective tariffs in place from the Second act of the First Congress until GATT

44 posted on 07/21/2003 10:01:03 AM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: TopDog2
By the time workers get so desparate that they ask a for a union, management has usually done the destroying.

Bull...an employer doesn't "owe" me a job. If I don't like the way my employer treats me then I leave his employment for someone who will treat me with the respect I require.

Remember, the only thing worse than a union is management that is bad enough for the workers to want to be represented by a union.

Again Bull...I don't need a union thug with a club to negotiate my value to a company for me.

BTW, that lawsuit you reference is from 2000. Since there are no follow-ups listed on the AK web site, I guess it was thrown out of court?

Working its way through the courts, I'd imagine.

Also, I'm sure you know, anyone can file a lawsuit about anything. Just because a lawsuit has been filed, that isn't proff that any laws were broken

Right....Unions are upstanding institutions closely tied to our nations survival and freedoms...ya dupe.

45 posted on 07/21/2003 10:17:26 AM PDT by KDD
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To: Bon mots
Remember, owners of factories run them to earn money, not to supply jobs, or tax revenues, or defendents for lawsuits...etc.

MEGA BUMP! Factory owners and corporations don't "owe" anyone a job. Period.
46 posted on 07/21/2003 10:24:59 AM PDT by KantianBurke (The Federal govt should be protecting us from terrorists, not handing out goodies)
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To: TroutStalker
At Wal-Mart he makes $6.25 an hour, half of what he earned at Trinity.

There are millions in this country that are willing to work with their hands, even in "hard" jobs. Many people are not brainy people, just workers.

Unfortunately, millions of illegal aliens undocumented workers are taking millions of these jobs and at the same time keeping the salaries on these lower-end jobs lower than it otherwise would be. They are also competing for government benefits and other services while causing taxes and costs to skyrocket.

The political Party that grabs this illegal immigration bull by the horns and does something about it will be in power for the next generation. My guess is, the Democrats will do it, or at least demogogue it, which will put them in power.

Watch Hillary! suddenly position herself as Savior of The Common Man by coming out with a fine-sounding "program" to solve it.

47 posted on 07/21/2003 10:30:58 AM PDT by Gritty
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To: KantianBurke
MEGA BUMP! Factory owners and corporations don't "owe" anyone a job. Period.

Those living in the USA who are American citizens owe loyalty to the USA. There is no right to commit treason.

48 posted on 07/21/2003 10:54:48 AM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: KantianBurke
Factory owners and corporations don't "owe" anyone a job.

That's right and is one of the reasons why I would have trouble supporting a democrat that ran on an anti-offshoring platform (which I'm surprised they haven't taken up yet). Instead of freeing factories to work in a less taxable state (including all taxes, such as medicial insurance) and taxing imports we're likely to see a democrat that talks about taking money from the rich owners and dispering it to the workers.
49 posted on 07/21/2003 10:56:37 AM PDT by lelio
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To: harpseal
loyalty ='s being forced to run your business at a loss if only for "patriotic" causes.

Tell me, what section of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution is that specified?

50 posted on 07/21/2003 11:06:30 AM PDT by KantianBurke (The Federal govt should be protecting us from terrorists, not handing out goodies)
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To: TroutStalker
bump
51 posted on 07/21/2003 11:14:02 AM PDT by VOA
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To: KantianBurke
Tell me, what section of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution is that specified?

That's where political leadership comes in. To see what's best for the country and guide policies to achieve that. Yes, it goes both ways and we could end up with another FDR.
Businesses will do whatever is best for the owners or their shareholders. They can't really make moral judgements about whether or not to setup shop in communist China or keep the jobs here: its already been decided for them by their competitors.
52 posted on 07/21/2003 11:16:04 AM PDT by lelio
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To: KantianBurke
loyalty ='s being forced to run your business at a loss if only for "patriotic" causes

I did not now or ever state that loyaty was being forced to run your business at a loss for patriotic reasons but in American History uou might examine Russell, Majors, and Wadell for an example of people doing just that. Loyalty means running your business according to the laws of the USA and not engaging in perjury to bring in H1B or L1 visa holders. Loyalty means not supporting a so called Free Trade envirornmment that is not free trade because one has made investments in the PRC in order to supposedly save money said investment having been subsidized by the Federal government.

53 posted on 07/21/2003 11:17:42 AM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: lelio
"That's where political leadership comes in. To see what's best for the country and guide policies to achieve that."

Exactly. So how about we stop demagoging business owners, start defending capitalism and begin dismantling of the welfare / regulatory state.

54 posted on 07/21/2003 11:18:34 AM PDT by KantianBurke (The Federal govt should be protecting us from terrorists, not handing out goodies)
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To: harpseal
Make up your mind. Either its a treasonable offense for a business to run itself for a profit even if its not to the liking of certain workers (ignoring the fact consumers in this country sure like the lowered costs) or its legal for them to do but immoral i.e. NAFTA.
55 posted on 07/21/2003 11:21:59 AM PDT by KantianBurke (The Federal govt should be protecting us from terrorists, not handing out goodies)
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To: harpseal
"A society consisting of a very small number of very rich and a large number of unemployed."

You seem to be over-reacting there just a tad, Chicken Little.

56 posted on 07/21/2003 11:21:59 AM PDT by MEGoody
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To: Bon mots
You'd think the political climate would be right to change some of these things right about now. These "punishments" are always the work of big government liberals. One can make the arugment directly to the blue collar types that vote for these liberals, that we must make these changes or their jobs are lost. The dread of losing one's job is palpable out there. Why can't we have an "American Reinvestment Act", base it on conservative principals, and win?
57 posted on 07/21/2003 11:23:16 AM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: MEGoody
You seem to be over-reacting there just a tad, Chicken Little.

merely predicting from current documented trends. The Chinese are engaging in hostilities against teh USA based upon the following article Trade Deficit Provides China With More Than Economic Advantages

The fact that we have recovery with increasing unemployment should be a matter of great concern to everyone. This is directly attributable to trade policies. If you have something more to contribute to the discussion other than calling me "Chicken little" implying I am falsly claiming the sky is fallin I would love to read it.

58 posted on 07/21/2003 11:32:37 AM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: KantianBurke
Make up your mind. Either its a treasonable offense for a business to run itself for a profit even if its not to the liking of certain workers (ignoring the fact consumers in this country sure like the lowered costs) or its legal for them to do but immoral i.e. NAFTA.

I have clearly stated my position I do not support business using offshore production of national defense items such is IMHO a form of treason I further view the transfer of information related to national defense for money as treason and such has been the case since prior to the adoption of our US Constitution. I further take the stand that corporate executives have a duty to follow the law and when they violate that duty because of their business model they should be prosecuted. What do you find threatening about believing in the law and the US Constitution?

Now some have taken teh stand that the current trade envirornment is their right. It is merely the policies that we have in place at this time. Those policies can be changed by putting in place tariffs to take care of some practices such as low artificial pegs of foreign currencies and or as retaliation for high tariffs on American manufactured products.

By calling for enforcement of immigration laws and tariff laws it will harm some who have engaged in past criminal practices.

59 posted on 07/21/2003 11:39:32 AM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: Last Dakotan
Why can't we have an "American Reinvestment Act", base it on conservative principals, and win?

Because it would cut into the flow of Capital to china and India.

60 posted on 07/21/2003 11:40:56 AM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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