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Longstreet becomes target of Lee's admirers
WashTimes ^ | July 12, 2003 | Ken Kryvoruka

Posted on 07/15/2003 6:06:12 AM PDT by stainlessbanner

Edited on 07/12/2004 4:05:14 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

He was, at the war's end, the senior lieutenant general in the Confederate Army, Lee's trusted friend and second-in-command of the Army of Northern Virginia --- yet it was not until 1998 that a statue was erected anywhere to honor James Longstreet. This slight can be traced to his membership in the Republican Party during Reconstruction, but even more damaging to his reputation was the image created by his postwar enemies: He became a villain in Southern eyes, a scapegoat for the Confederate defeat, and one of the South's most controversial figures.


(Excerpt) Read more at dynamic.washtimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: confederate; dixie; lee; longstreet; relee
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To: carton253
I did this three years ago. I cried when I saw the incredible stupidity of Lee's attack. Apologists can whine that "if Longstreet started earlier," or, "if the artillery did its job," or, "if the flank attacks were better," but the fact is that is military stupidity that, for that battle, equates Lee with Burnside (and Grant, at Cold Harbor).

To expect 15,000 men to walk about a mile in open ground, subject to artillery fire for at least half that distance, then subject to massed musket fire for the last 200 yards, not to mention snipers and skirmishers, was madness. Meade had at least THREE full corps in reserve, not to mention Union cavalry that could have been called in to plug a hole. Just using a reasonable calculation of 50% casualties to GET to the wall, to expect 7,000 men to take 20,000, plus the reserves, was idiotic.

What gets me is that the apologists of Lee completely overlook this while RIGHTLY praising his otherwise brilliant moves. In contrast, Grant's brilliant capture of Vicksburg is always tainted with Cold Harbor.

161 posted on 07/21/2003 9:15:42 AM PDT by LS
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To: GOPcapitalist
"The Dems of today couldn't have done it without the Lincoln precedent to build on."

Boy howdy, even a stopped clock is right twice a day. If not for Mr. Lincoln's "precedent", there would have been no government of the USA to expand, because the USA would have ceased to exist.

Thats Mr. Lincoln's big crime, he didn't let a bunch of rabble rousing rebels destroy the greatest nation in the history of earth.
162 posted on 07/21/2003 9:53:45 AM PDT by hirn_man
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To: LS; carton253
A charitable view of Lee's action was that for once he did the expected, obvious move, hoping thereby to once again catch the enemy off guard, who might have been expected to be on guard instead against something very tricky. Still, even if Pickett & Co. had broken through they would have been unsupported and virtually surrounded by 25,000 fresh Union troops. Lee was really lucky in his retreat. Grant, for instance, would not have allowed the rebels to cross the Potomac back into Virginia.
163 posted on 07/21/2003 9:56:38 AM PDT by Grand Old Partisan (You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
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To: hirn_man
Damn right! Thank God that President Lincoln did not let "a bunch of rabble rousing rebels destroy the greatest nation in the history of earth." At their core, neo-Confederates hate the United States of America, and so employ shoddy analysis nad bad logic to try and twist the patriotism of decent Americans into something vile.
164 posted on 07/21/2003 10:01:29 AM PDT by Grand Old Partisan (You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
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To: Grand Old Partisan
Agreed. Meade was removed precisely because he moved too slowly. Interestingly, about the only chance Lee had at Gettysburg Day 3 was to have sent JEB Stuart in after Pickett. But, again, as you point out, that would probably result in his troops being surrounded.
165 posted on 07/21/2003 10:24:09 AM PDT by LS
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To: LS
Cold Harbor is nowhere near the "blunder" that they mythology of historical orthodoxy has built it up to be. And Grant bears nowhere near the level of blame he has received for it.

Read Gordon C. Rhea's "Cold Harbor" - he's the acknowledged expert on the Overland Campaign of 1864, and he presents a lot of information and evidence that prior historians have completely overlooked.

First, Horace Porter's "Campaigning With Grant" led to the lie that the "soldiers knew they were going to die so they wrote their names on pieces of paper and pinned them to the backs of their shirts". This one little story accounts for 90% of the "butcher" mythology about Grant. In fact, the Union soldiers did this before any assault, and since it was something Porter hadn't seen before, he took it as a sign that the men knew it was going to fail but went anyway. Later historians, for a century now, have quoted that account of Porter's as if it were evidence that "everyone knew the assault would fail but Grant".

In fact, it's an outright lie and a complete myth, based on completely erroneous interpretation of an event.

Grant's strategy at Cold Harbor was completely sound (as Rhea points out). Lee's army had their backs to a river, were not dug in, and Grant was only seven miles from Richmond. He knew an assault had a good chance of success, and being under pressure for political reasons (the upcoming Republican convention and the upcoming election) he knew that if the assault succeeded it would end the war right then and there.

And here's something that Rhea also points out - it almost worked.

Almost only counts in horsehoes and handgrenades, I know, but what Rhea points out is that if Grant's orders had been followed immediately and the tactics hadn't been so bungled, it's very likely the Union would have destroyed Lee right there.

Unfortunately a few things happened. Meade was inept, and being in charge of the tactics, he bungled the assault from beginning to end: First, the assault got delayed for twenty-four hours, again, due to inept commanders - this gave Lee time to fortify. Second, once the assault was underway, it was totally disorganized and uncoordinated, with various divisions and brigades getting off at different times, etc, leading to a completely uncoordinated assault on the Confederate position.

Grant's mistakes were:

1. Leaving Meade in charge.

2. Not calling off the assault after it was known his orders wouldn't be followed when he ordered the assault - that they would be delayed for twenty-four hours.

3. The negotiations with Lee after the assualt that left men lying on the field for two days.

Ultimately, since Grant was in overall command, he has to bear the responsibility. But the blame isn't his, for the bungling, it's Meade's - actually, it's most of the command of the Army of the Potomac.

It's amazing to watch the performance of Grant's Army of the Tennessee in the West - the army that was imbued with Grant's "spirit" - the army he built up, the commanders he picked - and their brilliant success.

And it's depressing to seem him come east and try to manage this large, political, bungling, incompetant mess that was the Army of the Potomac. It's command was a morass of political appointees, egomaniacs, megalomaniacs, prima donnas, and intriguers.

In fact, I am often amazed that Grant was able to win the war, with the Army of the Potomac. It was a pathetic excuse for any army.

The average soldier in the AOTP cannot be faulted in most cases. But you do see a difference between the "suck it up", bold, aggressive, "can do" westerners in the Army of the Tennessee, and the whiney, moaning, soldiers in the AOTP whose morale rose and fell like the rising and setting of the Sun - and as often. They were also imbued with "McClellanism" - his spirit infected the AOTP.

And the command structure Grant was left to deal with...Oy...apart from Hancock and Sedgwick, there was almost no competant commander at the Corps, Division or Brigade level in the AOTP. None come to mind, anyway.

166 posted on 07/21/2003 10:24:22 AM PDT by Im Your Huckleberry
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To: Im Your Huckleberry
I'm sure your points are correct. My knowledge of Cold Harbor is from non-specialists, and from "The Last Full Measure," a fictional account that nevertheless tends to support your view.

However, if you want to get picky, Cold Harbor was a repeat of a smaller, equally disastrous frontal assault outside of Vicksburg---I forget the exact engagement, but it was eerie how close to Cold Harbor it was. So where I would criticize Grant is for not making a mistake, but for repeating it.

167 posted on 07/21/2003 10:28:25 AM PDT by LS
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To: Grand Old Partisan
If Grant had been in command at Antietam, and had received that cigar with the battle plans wrapped around it, Lee and the Army of Northern Virginia would have been destroyed in 1862. Period.

Same goes for Chancellorsville and Gettysburg. At Chancellorsville, if Lee had divided his forces that way, Grant would have destroyed him. First, there's no way Jackson's flanking move would have fooled Grant. Second, let's say for sake of argument Jackson's flanking move worked - Grant would have rallied his troops, lashed immediately out at Jackson, destroying him, and then wheeled around and flung his entire army on Lee's forces. That would have been the end of it. Grant was looking for just such an opportunity throughout the entire Overland Campaign of 1864. In fact, Grant used maneuver to achieve the same position between two wings of an army in the Vicksburg campaign. He took Jackson and drove Johnston out, and then nearly destroyed Pemberton's army at Champion's Hill. In fact, this is what kept Johnson away - he was afraid. At Chancellorsville, Grant would have leapt at the opportunity. He would have annhilated Lee's army.

Same at Gettysburg. No way Lee would have made it back across the Potomac. Not even a question. Lee would have been as dead as fried chicken. Grant would have wiped him out. He would have pursued him immediately, and rapidly, and Lee would have been destroyed by detail.

Lee knew better after the Wilderness. He was put on the defensive and stayed on the defensive. He just rushed to keep putting himself in front of Grant, and threw up fortifications and waited. That's all he could do. You see no more daring plans or aggressive, offensive tactics from Lee, after the Wilderness. And it wasn't because he didn't have enough men - it was because he knew better. He knew if he presented the opportunity to Grant, he would be destroyed. He had to keep his entire army together.

The last sense of aggression or initiative from Lee is when he attempted to break out of Petersburg. And that assault met with a crushing defeat.

Nope, Grant was the man. And it's why all of the historians interviewed in "North and South" magazine recently, all voted Grant #1 in the "Top Ten Generals" of the Civil War.

168 posted on 07/21/2003 10:34:40 AM PDT by Im Your Huckleberry
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To: Im Your Huckleberry
Thank you for the excellent analysis. Very well stated!!

My favorite Grant quote, which indicates how he would have acted at Antietam, Chancellorsville, or Gettyburg was after the first day of fighting at Shiloh. Shermna said: "Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own tday," to which Grant replied: "Whip 'em tomorrow though."
169 posted on 07/21/2003 10:40:55 AM PDT by Grand Old Partisan (You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
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To: LS
Grant himself compared Cold Harbor to the disastrous assault on May 22nd, 1863 at Vicksburg. So he recognized the similarities too.

But what Rhea points out (and other historians have pointed out) is that no general in the Civil War had the insight to realize the tactics of "frontal assault" against a fortified enemy position were simply wrong with the advent of the rifle. The rifle had changed the tactics of combat but no one in the Civil War realized this (they didn't even realize it in World War I, really - as military historian General J.F.C. Fuller pointed out in his "The Generalship of Ulysses S. Grant").

The idea was, you got yourself into the best possible position, and when you felt you had enough strategic advantage, you threw your men at the enemy in a direct assault. The only differentiating factor was did the General ordering the assault have a good gauge of whether the assault had a reasonable chance of success. At Fredericksburg, no amount of men could have taken Marye's Heights - and Burnside wasn't smart enough to gauge this. Grant was much better at this, and he only ever ordered an assault when he felt he had a very good chance of success. Looking at his track record, he was right more often than not. On May 22nd, 1863 at Vicksburg, and on June 3, 1864 at Cold Harbor, it didn't work.

However, at the Mule Shoe at Spotsylvania, he almost succeeded in wiping Lee out. If Gordon hadn't led such an amazing resistance and counterattack when he did, the Confederate army would have been in the sh!t. Hancock would have ran right over them. Again, Burnside let everyone down.

So Grant is no more to fault for this than Lee or anyone else when it comes to using frontal assault tactics. Lee deserves more blame for Pickett's Charge than Grant does for Cold Harbor. Pickett's Charge is a far more obvious tactical impossibility - one that rates with the obviousness of Fredericksburg. Lee, however, was caught up in the idea of the invincibility of his army - that was his blunder - he felt they could do anything he asked of them.

What's key is that Grant never tried such an assault again after Cold Harbor.

In the end, it was Grant's grand strategy that beat Lee and the Confederacy.

170 posted on 07/21/2003 10:48:12 AM PDT by Im Your Huckleberry
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To: Im Your Huckleberry
I agree on Grant, and part of your criticism of Burnside and others, in fact, must be assigned to Grant. He concluded, after discussions with Lincoln, that he had to be "General of the Army," not the general of a particular corps or campaign. He therefore suffered Burnside far too long, when he should have sacked the man. Arguably, also, Grant fought the entire Virginia campaign without his best general, Sherman---or, perhaps, more specifically, so that Sherman could move relatively freely while Grant paid in blood to tie down Lee.

Grant paid a price of his "hands off" policy with Burnside, then gained it back two-fold with Sherman.

171 posted on 07/21/2003 10:54:13 AM PDT by LS
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To: Grand Old Partisan
Can you explain to me where Stuart was and why he was missing?
172 posted on 07/21/2003 11:04:41 AM PDT by carton253 (You are free to form your own opinions, but not your own facts.)
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To: carton253
Lee sent Stuart with most (but not all) the rebel cavalry on a wide swing through central Pennsylvania, with the idea of drawing off Union troops and then arriving at the battle in time to crush the Union army from behind. Of course, no one on either side anticipated just where the two armies would meet.

173 posted on 07/21/2003 11:12:13 AM PDT by Grand Old Partisan (You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
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To: LS
I remember a retired general commenting on the scene from The Thin Red Line when Col. Nick Nolte is yelling at a captain for not attacking as ordered because he claimed the situation had changed since the Colonel had seen the situation. The commentator blamed Nolte's character, saying that if he did not have confidence in the captain's judgement he should have relieved him long before. Similarly, Grant deserves blame for Burnside's blunders.
174 posted on 07/21/2003 11:15:38 AM PDT by Grand Old Partisan (You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
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To: LS
I agree with you completely about Burnside (and I feel similarly about Butler and Baldy Smith). Grant is to blame for allowing him to remain in command as long as he did. Burnside was a complete idiot who should have been removed from the army after the Fredericksburg disaster.

The one thing I truly feel Grant deserves blame for was leaving these incompetants in command after they had failed him.

Butler was a political problem - he couldn't have relieved Butler without there being a significant political price. But Baldy Smith and Burnside were total liabilities who should have been removed from command.

However, as a few historians point out, Grant had no other choice. If he replaced Burnside, he had no one to replace him with. At least Burnside knew the ropes and could marginally follow orders. Historians point out that if he had relieved him, he wouldn't really have had anyone any more competant to put in his place and suggest this might have been why he left someone like him in command.

Overall it's just a sorry reflection of the command deficiencies in the AOTP. Sad.

Grant definitely used the Overland Campaign to hold Lee in place. It was part of his grand strategy. He knew that they couldn't shift troops to different areas then, to reinforce themselves where they were under assault.

He knew somewhere the Confederacy would break. They broke at Atlanta. And Sherman's march was the vindication of Grant's strategy.

Sherman marched straight through the south wreaking havoc and destroying infrastructure and Lee couldn't do a thing about it. That tells you everything you need to know about Grant as a strategist.

175 posted on 07/21/2003 11:27:29 AM PDT by Im Your Huckleberry
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To: Im Your Huckleberry; LS
The Prussian general von Moltke faulted Grant for:

1) not shifting troops back and forth, east and west, along the Union's superior railroad network

2) not landing 50,000 men in the Carolinas instead of getting them killed in the Wilderness
176 posted on 07/21/2003 11:36:49 AM PDT by Grand Old Partisan (You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
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To: Grand Old Partisan
Thank God that President Lincoln did not let "a bunch of rabble rousing rebels destroy the greatest nation in the history of earth."

Granted (no pun intended), that the preservation of the Union was the right outcome. But, without those rabble rousing rebels, their ancestors and their descendents America would never have been the greatest nation in the history of the earth.

177 posted on 07/21/2003 11:43:34 AM PDT by Corin Stormhands (HHD)
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To: Corin Stormhands
Without their ancestors it would not have been, much less the greatest.
178 posted on 07/21/2003 12:16:34 PM PDT by labard1
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To: Im Your Huckleberry
Again, I don't know the specifics of the Union Army, but was there a political reason Burnside was kept on?
179 posted on 07/21/2003 12:17:22 PM PDT by LS
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To: labard1
Well, that too.
180 posted on 07/21/2003 12:17:32 PM PDT by Corin Stormhands (HHD)
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