Here is what the acolytes of solar power don't want you to know...

self | July 15, 2003 | Boot Hill

[logic]

I don't know, my mind gets numb just looking at numbers that big, but it's got to be better than paying farmers to do nothing with all that land. Besides, didn't the american farms in the great plains feed most of the world at one time? That's some huge prodution capacity....

[DB]

Yes, but Boot Hill is saying that the plant cost is only 10% of the fuel cost. That brings it up to 3.7 cents a kilowatt-hour. Still along way from 12+ cents a kilowatt-hour.

My real point is that I believe natural gas costs today are much higher than Boot Hill's calculations show.

[logic]

Let's see, Distribution network, Billing systems, CEO salaries.......

[DB]

Well here in California they lost money at 10+ cents a kilowatt-hour.

My point being that I think natural gas costs today (and for the foreseeable future) are greater than your calculations show.

[DB]

Those costs are small relative to generation costs.

[FreedomPoster]

I don't think they are much higher. Doing some back-of-the-envelope calculations, at $0.70/therm for natural gas and 80% conversion efficiency, I get $.03/kWh, so in the same ballpark.

[Boot Hill]

Solar Powered Stirling Engine

--Boot Hill

[FreedomPoster]

Well here in California they lost money at 10+ cents a kilowatt-hour

Well, heck, there's your problem. When you're not generating your own power, and you have to buy power from 3 states away at the selling utilities' marginal cost of production (i.e. most expensive-to-generate kWhs), no wonder.

[DB]

So interstate trade is bad?

Many states buy California food. Many don’t grow their own food. Is that really any different?

Actually I live in a county that generates much more power than the county uses. Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant is here along with other natural gas burning plants.

We (I) simply got screwed.

[Boot Hill]

Delivered natural gas costs for large public utilities are currently less than $5/MMBTU (million BTU). A modern combined cycle, combustion turbine generator typically runs at a heat rate (efficiency) of 6800 BTU (per kW-hr). This means they generate power at 3.4¢/kW-hr.

--Boot Hill

[mtbopfuyn]

May I hazard a guess that you've never tried solar energy? No, the technology v. $$$ isn't there yet but how about, just for giggles and grins, take a couple hours and set yourself up with a solar oven. If nothing else it might give some quality time with the kids or get them an A in science (or if no kids, get you out of some A/C office into the sunshine). Of course for anything other than smores, don't waste your time or mine when you holler back that small versions like the pizza box type doesn't work. I wish I could upgrade my solar oven to a through-the-wall type.

http://solarcooking.org

[biblewonk]

This is why windpower rules and solar power drools. But thanks for the platform.

[Boot Hill]

BTW, the numbers I gave you in post #70 are California numbers. They were just confirmed for me by a manager at the Moss Landing power plant (2538 MW!!!)

--Boot Hill

[biblewonk]

35 billion dollar blank lung subsidy!

[visualops]

You must not have read any of the case studies at the site I linked (which came from your post), and that's not even a recently updated site.
From a business standpoint, solar power devices will simply not keep being installed if they haven't proven cost effective. The market has proven they do have a place as a supplemental or alternative power source.
Reality is flying in the face of your statements, yet you choose to keep plodding along with your mindset.

[Consort]

...and what form of energy do you represent?

[Lee'sGhost]

Is that supposed to be a joke?

This isn't an "unconcentrated sunlight or low temperature heat" engine that barely moves. I know Stirling engines have been around for a long time, but this is something monumentally different. It's like comparing a two cylinder ICE to a turbocharged V8.

[Boot Hill]

biblewonk says:   "...windpower rules and solar power drools."

wita says:   "...the truth is out on wind energy...Wind can only be a backup or 'alternative' due to its inefficiencies." (post #14)

Biblewonk, meet wita. (And may the best screen name win!)

--Boot Hill

[Boot Hill]

#73 was for you.

--Boot Hill

[FreedomPoster]

>>So interstate trade is bad?

It is when you're stuck buying the other guy's most expensive power.