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Bill O'ReillyL: Vatican has gone quiet when we need it most
NY Daily News ^ | July 14th, 2003 | Bill O'Reilly

Posted on 07/14/2003 11:56:28 AM PDT by presidio9

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To: Cronos
I read some of the idiotic comments like the Pope has never been on the side of righteousnes and I consider it written by imbeciles with no knowledge about history, just spouting senseless propaganda.

If the Catholic-bashing idiots of FR knew even half the details of Karol Wojtyla's biography, they'd know they're not fit to even open their mouths to criticize him. They've been sitting around fat, dumb and happy in the US all their lives - I'd love to see what their reaction would be if real tyranny and persecution came to these shores.

They'd be the first to renounce Christ in order to save their smarmy hides.

61 posted on 07/15/2003 7:14:19 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: Cronos
I'm with you on this. I understand the teachings of Agustine, but I do not think they compell the Pope to support a war, no matter how just. Christ's words are clear. It is the job of all Christians to seek out peaceful solutions.
62 posted on 07/15/2003 7:40:48 AM PDT by presidio9 (RUN AL, RUN!!!)
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To: wideawake; biblewonk
What a charitable comment.

I guess that depends on your point of view.

Would it be "uncharitable" of you to say Joseph Smith's, Mary Baker Eddy's and/or Charles Taze Russell's prayers "may have been almost useless"?

Whether or not he did, would it have been "uncharitable" for the 16th Century pope to have said Martin Luther's prayers "may be almost useless"?

63 posted on 07/15/2003 11:29:02 AM PDT by newgeezer (fundamentalist, regarding the Constitution AND the Holy Bible, i.e. WORDS MEAN THINGS)
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To: newgeezer
Whether or not he did, would it have been "uncharitable" for the 16th Century pope to have said Martin Luther's prayers "may be almost useless"?

It sure would have. No Christian's prayers are useless.

As far as Joseph Smith, MB Eddy and CT Russell's prayers, it depends on to whom they directed them. Joseph Smith directed them to a different "God" than the God of Christianity. Russell, I believe didn't pray to Christ since he believed him to be just a creature. I'm not sure that MB Eddy was even aware of a divinity separate from herself.

But both the Pope and Martin Luther pray to a crucified and risen Jesus who is true God and true man and who answers prayers.

There's no comparison between Smith and Eddy on the one hand and JPII and (say) RC Sproul on the other.

64 posted on 07/15/2003 11:46:59 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: wideawake; biblewonk
...it depends on to whom they directed them. [Insert the name of a false Christian here] directed them to a different "God" than the God of Christianity. ...

Bingo. Thus, we are in agreement that it is not uncharitable to say such a person's prayers may be almost useless.

Again, it's a matter of perspective.

65 posted on 07/15/2003 12:26:26 PM PDT by newgeezer (fundamentalist, regarding the Constitution AND the Holy Bible, i.e. WORDS MEAN THINGS)
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To: newgeezer
Again, it's a matter of perspective.

I disagree. If someone believes that the Jesus Christ of the Gospels is their Lord and Savior, then their prayer can't be useless.

If they believe that the Jesus Christ of the Gospels was just a nice guy, or a manifestation of a shared consciousness or life-force, or a special but non-divine creature then we have an entirely different phenomenon.

This is not a matter of perspective - either you believe Christ is Lord or you don't.

66 posted on 07/15/2003 12:35:06 PM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: presidio9
Maybe the Catholic leadership is actually taking their guidance from the giant "queen spider" (as per southpark episode "red hot Catholic love) after all??? (sarcasm)
67 posted on 07/15/2003 12:38:51 PM PDT by musical_airman (SERENITY NOW!!!!!!!!!)
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To: musical_airman
Son, I'm only gonna tell you this once: Stay off the drugs!
68 posted on 07/15/2003 12:40:59 PM PDT by presidio9 (RUN AL, RUN!!!)
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To: presidio9
Naw......my current job does way too many random pee tests for that stuff........I blame my parents........Hey I didn't ask for these genes!!!

(I love you Mom and Dad......just kidding)
69 posted on 07/15/2003 12:42:32 PM PDT by musical_airman (SERENITY NOW!!!!!!!!!)
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To: wideawake; biblewonk
This is not a matter of perspective - either you believe Christ is Lord or you don't.

He is the matter of perspective. Some deny one's faith in His finished work on the cross is alone entirely efficacious for salvation. In doing so, they redefine Him. They redefine God.

70 posted on 07/15/2003 1:16:33 PM PDT by newgeezer (fundamentalist, regarding the Constitution AND the Holy Bible, i.e. WORDS MEAN THINGS)
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To: newgeezer
Some deny one's faith in His finished work on the cross is alone entirely efficacious for salvation.

Some certainly do. But that's not the Catholic position.

The only salvation is Christ crucified.

71 posted on 07/16/2003 9:14:47 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: wideawake
> Some deny one's faith in His finished work on the cross is alone entirely efficacious for salvation.

Some certainly do. But that's not the Catholic position. The only salvation is Christ crucified.

Really? So, a Roman Catholic need only profess faith in Him, and that's it, eternity in Heaven is assured, no matter what?

If so, I've been misled regarding certain stuff like your "mortal sins" and "last rites" and praying people's souls out of "purgatory" (to name a few).

72 posted on 07/16/2003 10:26:31 AM PDT by newgeezer (fundamentalist, regarding the Constitution AND the Holy Bible, i.e. WORDS MEAN THINGS)
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To: newgeezer
So, a Roman Catholic need only profess faith in Him, and that's it, eternity in Heaven is assured, no matter what?

You've jumped from A to C.

Catholics and Reformed Christians both agree that Christ's blood is the only ransom for sin and Christ's merit is the only source of grace.

We disagree over whether the Scriptures teach that mere verbal profession is the means of availing ourselves of Christ's grace.

We believe that Christ meant what he said: "not everyone who says Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of Heaven" but that he who does the will of the Father will be saved. We believe that a mere verbal profession can sometimes be empty and meaningless - "This people worships me with their lips but their hearts are far from me."

In other words, for the Catholic faith is not just a synonym for "belief" - having faith means being faithful.

I mean, quite honestly, what does it mean to you when Christ tells the Apostles that He will judge us on the Last Day by how we have served him?

I've never gotten a direct answer from a Reformed Christian about how we are to take such passages from the Gospels.

73 posted on 07/16/2003 10:49:39 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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