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To: Sabertooth; Amelia; OWK; Jolly Rodgers
Well, this whole thing has been bugging me, and I've been trying to justify my position to myself -- a sure sign that I'm avoiding the nub of the question.

Ironically, my original post wasn't even entirely serious. I got sucked into a finger-pointing match -- my mistake -- and said things I should not have said. However, it was foolish to insist that the sweeping statement was true, and I should not have done so. I therefore retract the sweeping statement I made.

However.

While I did overreach when I made the comment, there are those who make the connections -- for example, equating neo-cons and Jews; or (as Ron Paul recently did), neo-cons and communists. And of course those who make the full connection.

In that vein, it is instructive to look at a Google search on the keywords neo con Israel jew.

You'll note that there are indeed a lot of nasty anti-semetic hits. There are also sites that discuss the issue in a less rabid form, but nevertheless make the same connection. Which is to say, there is a significant segment for whom "neo-con" does indeed mean "Jew", "Communist," or both. So my comment was not without some truth.

There are also those who, like our friend Jolly, toss "neo-con" around as an insult, and even as a tactic for stopping debate (I seem to recall being accused of much the same thing). Given the size of the audience that is receptive to the less wholesome nuances of "neo-con", let me suggest that those who would use the term in polite conversation might do well to reconsider, lest they be once again lumped in with the nice folks at stormfront.org.

307 posted on 07/15/2003 7:03:38 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: r9etb
Thanks - a very reasoned post, and I admire someone with the guts to admit they are wrong. I also agree about the sometimes-negative connotations of the term "neo-con".
308 posted on 07/15/2003 10:16:56 AM PDT by Amelia (It's better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness)
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To: r9etb
Well, this whole thing has been bugging me, and I've been trying to justify my position to myself -- a sure sign that I'm avoiding the nub of the question.

Fair enough.

Ironically, my original post wasn't even entirely serious.

Oh, I see. The old, "I was just kidding" excuse.

I got sucked into a finger-pointing match...

You got suckered? There you were innocently minding your own business when someone came along and suckered you into making the anti-semitic outburst? Okey-dokey.

... -- my mistake -- and said things I should not have said.

Now I'm beginning to wonder which part of what you said you are regretting.

However, it was foolish to insist that the sweeping statement was true, and I should not have done so. I therefore retract the sweeping statement I made.

The sweeping statement... So, is it the fact that you appealed to anti-semitism that bothers you, or the fact that you used it overbroadly that bothers you?

However.

An apology with a "but" is no apology at all. It is a rationalization for having done something you know was wrong, but just can't shake.

While I did overreach when I made the comment, there are those who make the connections -- for example, equating neo-cons and Jews; or (as Ron Paul recently did), neo-cons and communists. And of course those who make the full connection.

So, it was the overreaching you regret, not that you resorted to the tactic in the first place.

In that vein, it is instructive to look at a Google search on the keywords neo con Israel jew.

And to confirm that point, you're going to go right back and occupy the same ground that you are feigning an apology for.

You'll note that there are indeed a lot of nasty anti-semetic hits. There are also sites that discuss the issue in a less rabid form, but nevertheless make the same connection. Which is to say, there is a significant segment for whom "neo-con" does indeed mean "Jew", "Communist," or both. So my comment was not without some truth.

Uh-huh. Let us know your true feelings. Don't hold back.

There are also those who, like our friend Jolly, toss "neo-con" around as an insult, and even as a tactic for stopping debate (I seem to recall being accused of much the same thing). Given the size of the audience that is receptive to the less wholesome nuances of "neo-con", let me suggest that those who would use the term in polite conversation might do well to reconsider, lest they be once again lumped in with the nice folks at stormfront.org.

Oh, yes. There it is. Your true self escapes again in all its perverted glory. Here's a tip: When apologizing for something, its usually best not to conclude by repeating that very same thing over again. ;-) Have a nice day.

309 posted on 07/15/2003 12:02:16 PM PDT by Jolly Rodgers
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