Focus on fixing what went wrong with 507th

El Paso Times | Thursday, July 10, 2003 | Editor

[FryingPan101]

All the details of the 507th Maintenance Company element's desperate, bloody battle near the Iraqi city of Nasiriyah on March 23 may never be known.

But a report released this week by Army investigators raises some serious questions that demand answers, because soldiers' lives could depend on them.

One of the most serious questions is about the condition of the 507th's weapons. An executive summary of the Army report says that while the 507th was at Camp Virginia, a staging area in Kuwait, soldiers "... conducted additional training and preparations at Camp Virginia that included ... weapons and vehicle maintenance."

Yet later in the report, in recounting part of the fight, it's noted about one group of 507th soldiers: "Most of the soldiers in this group report that they experienced weapons malfunctions. These malfunctions may have resulted from inadequate individual maintenance in a desert environment."

Later the report says, "Sgt. Riley attempted to secure 1st. Sgt. Dowdy's M16, since his own rifle had malfunctioned. ... Riley attempted to fire Johnson's and Hernandez's M16s, but both jammed. ... Spec. Hudson attempted to fire his M249 (Squad Automatic Weapon) while driving, but it malfunctioned."

Why? Why all the problems with the weapons?

Was this reflected in other units, combat units, or was it peculiar to support units -- or just this support unit? Was it a training failure, mechanical failure?

Answers are needed; lives depend on it.

In this era of unprecedented high-tech equipment, why were there so many communications problems? Why were communications "stretched to the limit?" And why did a support unit lose communications because of dead batteries?

Lives of future combatants may depend on getting answers.

How much of the 507th tragedy must be put down to command and control failure?

The report says that at a certain point the 507th convoy "... would be directed from Blue to Jackson (highway routes) by soldiers at a manned tactical control point ..."

Yet shortly thereafter, the report notes that the unit commander "... had highlighted only Route Blue on the annotated map, and believed in error that Blue was his assigned route."

How could that have happened?

Answers to these and other questions raised in the report must be found. It shouldn't be a blame game or a witch hunt or a desperate search for a scapegoat. And while some of these questions could be construed as second-guessing, it's much more than that.

Figuring out what happened and why, and then fixing it, could well save American lives in future conflicts.

[LadyDoc]

they didn't clean their weapons. which is why the gov't kept so quiet about the problems.

M 16 are famous for jamming with sand. Many soldiers carry AK 47's because they aren't as accurate, but they don't jam as easily when dirty. That is why they are favorites for irregular soldiers. Alas, support battalions aren't oriented to worry about such things.

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[Dick Vomer]

everyday.... breakdown weapon, clean, dry fire.... magazine.. safety on.... everyday.... my rifle is named..."fill in the blank" there is no other like it...

[Lil'freeper]

Figuring out what happened and why, and then fixing it, could well save American lives in future conflicts.

Dear editors, I'm sure this is news to the Army. Perhaps you should call 'em up and let them know.

[Poohbah]

M 16 are famous for jamming with sand.

They're famous for jamming without regular cleaning and lubrication--just like any other gas-operated automatic weapon.

What lots of folks in the Army don't like to talk about is that some Marine convoys were shot at in the opening days of the war--and the Marines were able to shoot back, in part because cleaning weapons is a sacrament for Marines. The Iraqis learned very quickly not to shoot at the jarheads, because the jarheads get snippy about it.

[centurion316]

I am a former infantry officer. But, in one of my more interesting assignments, I served as the Executive Officer (XO) of a Division Support Command. My experiences in that assignment taught me that CSS soldiers do not clean their weapons as often as they should. They tend to draw weapons, go to the field, and clean their weapons before turning them in. The rest of the time they sit in their vehicle gathering dust and grime. Of course, this was a peacetime observation, but soldiers tend to do in war what they learned in peace. I remember saying to my wife when the reports of the ambush first appeared that I bet that their weapons jammed. Sad that that predicition turned out to be true, but it points out a systemic problem. Hope that the CSS community gets the message and that NCO's get serious about this.

BTW, this can happen to any unit that lets training and discipline slip. It occurs more often in CSS units because some of their leaders don't see themselves as combat troops and don't think keeping weapons clean is very important.

[fourdeuce82d]

M 16 are famous for jamming with sand

Doesn't seem like the infantry guys had any problems. This was a troop screw up.

[Poohbah]

Yup.

God have mercy on you in an Marine Air Wing squadron or an FSSG (Force Service Support Group) if the Sergeant Major catches you with a dirty weapon...because while God may be merciful, the Sergeant Major sure as hell isn't.

[ErnBatavia]

because cleaning weapons is a sacrament for Marines.

Amen! I wish I knew how many times we stripped down our weapons in boot camp alone (especially boot camp, come to think of it)....talk about something become second nature, almost like another bodily appendage.

[joesnuffy]

Weapons cleaning and inspection is the domain of the NCOs
Every single patrol we ever came off of...ended at our firebase with weapons cleaning and inspection...NO EXCEPTIONS
You dont get chow, mail, etc etc until the weapons have been cleaned INSPECTED & PASSED
SSGT Alan Drury from Arkansas... thanks - Doc

[Feckless]

Because of my 63 series MOS, most (but not all)of my time was spent in REMF units. I have been in units where you never got the same weapon twice, where the unit armorer would clean your weapon for $5 a month, etc.

Once in an AHB I was the bad guy who caused us to fail an ARTEP because I took and properly deployed my platoon's crew served weapons. The inspectors didn't notice that no one else took theirs until they saw mine. Oh, how I miss Aviation..... NOT!

[Lichgod]

As a tank company commander, I remember the grumbles I would get when insisting on clean weapons after field exercises. Upon returning from the field, soldiers just want to put the tank to bed and go home. I would inspect weapons turned in and make everyone redraw them to clean before going home. Took only once before the NCO's would detail one man per tank to work as a cleaning team for crew served weapons, M240 (7.62mm) and .50Cal, while everyone else took care of their personnal weapon, 9mm pistol or M16 rifle.

[xsrdx]

It occurs more often in CSS units because some of their leaders don't see themselves as combat troops and don't think keeping weapons clean is very important.

Dead on.

The CSS culture doesn't figure direct combat is likely, and thus tends to neglect training for the eventuality. Combat arms units get into fights on purpose, while CSS units seek to avoid them.

Aside from training issues, CSS units are often at the back of the line for new equipment and repair parts for small arms as well, and if the leadership isn't energized, that won't change.

[centurion316]

Very insightful observation. In the USMC you are a Marine first, supply clerk second. NCO's enforce the same standards across the Corps. Army culture, unfortunately, is the reverse: supply clerk first, soldier second. Supply clerks who grow up to be Sergeants Major in CSS units do not behave the same as infantry privates who grow up to be Sergeants Major. The Army needs to recognize this cultural flaw and fix it.

[hoot2]

"and the Marines were able to shoot back, in part because cleaning weapons is a sacrament for Marines."

n "m-16 club" doesn't have the range of n rpg or ak...

[Britton J Wingfield]

They need to learn to clena their weapons BEFORE firing them as well as after.

Every time we draw National Guard weapons they are filthy. Don't trust the last guy who had your rifle.