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To: Colofornian
"that morphed into the heretical "eternal security", a horrendous proposition that is foreign to Scripture Okay. This shows you don't know what you're talking about. Lutherans don't believe in "eternal security"--they believe you can commit spiritual suicide and lose your salvation (see Hebrews 6:1-4). How can something Luther-- and Lutherans to this day--deny ("once saved, always saved") be the groundwork for "morphing?" It can't. You're wrong. 'Fess up."

Luther taught his personal doctrine of "predestination", (or election), which is similar to eternal security - the "once saved always saved" concept. I don't know a thing about the doctrine of "spiritual suicide", except that I believe Luther surely committed it when he left the Truth to follow his personal beliefs and founded his own church.

84 posted on 07/11/2003 12:27:57 PM PDT by TheCrusader
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To: TheCrusader
Luther taught his personal doctrine of "predestination", (or election), which is similar to eternal security

What? Just because these two beliefs are part of Calvin's 5 points of belief (TULIP), they are "similar" and Luther taught them? Give me a break. What a pathetic argument.

First of all, Luther never taught once saved, always saved (eternal security). He taught the opposite: You can lose your salvation because salvation is, after all, a relationship with God/JC (John 17:3)...as we all know, relationships are never static...we either are moving closer to God or further away each day...and sometimes that's a roller-coaster...and some folks cut off their relationship with God 100%.

Jesus said many are called, but few are chosen...so just because many folks have been called by God, doesn't translate that they are predestined never to fall...or that they were ever in Christ to begin with. Although Luther taught in BONDAGE OF THE WILL that folks don't have the power to receive Christ, they indeed possess the ability to continue to reject Him.

87 posted on 07/11/2003 12:49:35 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: TheCrusader
He did teach it in the book The Bondage of the Will.

It is not heretical, however, but plain as day in Scripture.

Furthermore, nobody can lose their salvation, for "nobody can snatch them out of My hand." Predestination simply means you will be saved in the end and since you can't lose your salvation, of course it will cointinue to the end.
149 posted on 07/16/2003 11:29:25 AM PDT by rwfromkansas ("There is dust enough on some of your Bibles to write 'damnation' with your fingers." C.H. Spurgeon)
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