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>>Personally, I think, but for Luther's courage, there would have been no eventual United States of America...and we'd live in a very different world...

Yea, if it weren't for him we would be living in a Christian world and nation today. Thanks to Luther and Calvin, we now live in a Post-Christian world. I'd choose a Christian world any day over what we have now.

The problem Luther had was that while he initial sough to reform the Church, he threw the baby out with the bath water. His theology is simply that -- his. It wasn't the faith handed down by Christ but Luthers perversion of it.

Thanks to Luther we also have 19,000 protestant denominations. We have so many contradictory theologies it isn't funny.

"Thanks to Luther we also have 19,000 protestant denominations. We have so many contradictory theologies it isn't funny. "

1. I imagine there are 19,000 or more contradictory theological positions allowed within the RC church these days. 2. Unlike about 18,990 of those "denominations", the Lutherans have a prominent and unchanging set of written confessions.

Thanks to Luther and Calvin, we now live in a Post-Christian world.

The areas of Europe dominated by Catholicism fell to the suppsed "post-Christian" ethos as fast or faster than did the Protestant bastions. The last two great formerly Christian powers to so decline spiritually were Great Britain and now America. Protestantism had greater influence in America than in any other nation. We also have the greatest freedom here. But there has been a moral and spiritual Apostasy in all facets of "Christendom." The Bible foretold this in 2 Thess.2:

"1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." Now, as for this "Post-Christian" era, there are more people coming in faith to the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior than ever before. The end of the repressive Catholic theocracy in Europe is not a bad thing. Forced conversions, whether by Muslims or "Christians" are anathema to the freedom that comes with true Christianity.

So you would prefer the hegemonic RCC rule over and against men and women coming to Christ freely--or not at all. Sorry dude. I'd take the 20+ thousand denominations over and against an all encompasing "magisterium" and papacy whose track record has been bloody aweful. The RCC is too prideful to really understand Christ.