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To: razorbak
"In conclusion, no one can be saved by trying to merit God’s favor."

That was the most roundabout way I've ever read to make this simple point. However, the Catholic teaching of "faith and works" by no means implies or presumes that people can find salvation by doing good deeds, or without the grace of God. This is the twisting of words and doctrine perpetrated by Protestants and Fundamentalists, (heretics all), that insidiously attempts to present Catholic doctrine as something other than it is. They set up the straw-man of "works", then attack the straw man as though it were Catholic doctrine. If the Catholic Church taught that good works saves a soul, then there would be no need for priests, the Sacraments, or to teach about Jesus Christ, the Bible, or the gospel. The Church would simply become like the Salvation Army and do good deeds and buy a ticket to Heaven. But such teaching is not the case, and never was.

Taking all of those Scriptural verses alone and trying to make a case from each of them is called "Fundamentalism", which is the greatest Protestant apostasy of the last four centuries. Scripture must be taken in its entirely, the whole picture, or else you present an illusion, (as Satan attempted to do with Jesus when he tempted Him in the desert with Bible verses). Any text without a context is always a pretext.

To truly understand the Bible, particularly the New Testament, one must look not only at the text, but at how the early Church Fathers, Saints and Bishops, (who were taught by the Apostles and the disciples of the Apostles), understood and wrote about the Bible. This is called TRADITION, as Saint Paul said we must follow in 2 Thess. 2:15 and 2 Thess. 3:6).

Saint Paul tells us clearly that we must put our Christian faith and gifts into practice, and that we have a role in our own salvation:

"Practice these duties, devote yourself to them, so that all may see your progress. Take heed to yourself and to your teaching; hold to that, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers. (I Timothy 4: 15-16).

In 2 Peter we read on two occasions that self interpreting the Bible is dangerous to our souls, and we are warned against this practice. (2 Peter 1:20 / 2 Peter 3:16).

Yours is a doctrine of pride and disobedience, for the Bible demands that we act on our faith and that we do certain things that display our faith and our obedience to Christ's doctrines. Hear what Saint Paul says:

"---inflicting vengeance upon those who do not know God and upon those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They shall suffer the punishment of eternal destruction and exclusion from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might" (2 Thess. 1: 8-9)

Again, Paul tells us that our faith and our souls can be lost if we do not remain vigilent:

"For you have need of endurance, so that you may do the will of God and receive what is promised". (Hebrews 10:36)

Listen to what Mark writes about your diluted theology in his gospel:

""Well did Isiah prophesy of you hyppocrites, as it is written, 'This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me'. (Mark 7:6) Nothing could be stated more clearly that being a true Christian entails doing and action, and not just some artificial profession of faith.

Though the Bible is great for teaching and quoting, it alone does not open the eyes of the believer. In fact, the Bible itself reveals this to us when Jesus was walking the road to Emmaus with the two believers. Jesus "opened the scriptures" to them, yet they still did not recognize Him. It was only when Jesus gave them the Eucharist, (when He broke the bread and blessed it, and gave them to eat), that "their eyes were opened". (Luke 24: 32-35)

But Protestants and Fundamentalists, unfortunately, do not eat the Eucharist as Jesus revealed this life-giving Sacrament in John 6:56. This is the reason for their spiritual blindness. The first Protestants just could not accept that they were truly eating the flesh of Jesus and drinking His blood, so they "departed from Jesus, and walked with him no more". (Jonh 6:66)

"He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever." This he said in the synagogue, as he taught at Caperna-um. Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, "This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?" But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at it, said to them, "Do you take offense at this? Then what if you were to see the Son of man ascending where he was before? It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you that do not believe." For Jesus knew from the first who those were that did not believe, and who it was that would betray him. And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him.

190 posted on 07/18/2003 4:16:33 PM PDT by TheCrusader
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To: TheCrusader
During the mass, priests allegedly have the power to supernaturally turn the bread and wine into the actual and literal body and blood of Jesus Christ:

"The Council of Trent summarizes the Catholic faith by declaring: "Because Christ our Redeemer said that it was truly his body that he was offering under the species of bread, it has always been the conviction of the Church of God, and this holy Council now declares again, that by the consecration of the bread and wine there takes place a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation." Pg. 347, #1376.

This Catechism quote reveals that the Catholic church still adheres to this doctrine which was defined at the Council of Trent:

"At the heart of the Eucharistic celebration are the bread and wine that, by the words of Christ and the invocation of the Holy Spirit, become Christ's Body and Blood." Pg. 336 # 1333

The Catechism even specifies when Christ comes into the eucharist and how long He stays:

"The Eucharistic presence of Christ begins at the moment of the consecration and endures as long as the Eucharistic species subsist. Christ is present whole and entire in each of the species and whole and entire in each of their parts, in such a way that the breaking of the bread does not divide Christ." Pg. 347 #1377

Since Catholicism is teaching members to partake in literal cannibalism, this doctrine requires serious examination. To begin with, we must determine this doctrine's origin. Is it from God, or is it a tradition of men? Catholicism insists it is scriptural, citing the words of Jesus in John 6:

"Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:53-54

Though this one verse does appear to teach cannibalism, if you read the entire passage in context, the meaning becomes clear. Right before making that statement, Jesus said:

"... For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst." John 6:33-35

This teaching is consistent with the rest of Scripture. Eternal life comes through believing in Jesus Christ, not eating His body. The Lord goes on to further clarify:

"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life..." John 6:40

Again, Jesus points out that eternal life comes through believing in Him. When the Lord's disciples murmured at His words, Jesus explained:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." John 6:63

Jesus was talking spiritually, not physically. He was explaining that spiritually, all life comes through faith in Him, not eating His body.

Nowhere else in the Bible does God endorse cannibalism. In fact, God forbids the practice:

"But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat." Genesis 9:4
"... No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood." Leviticus 17:12


God would never command His children to do something He had already forbidden.

The Biblical purpose

Paul's instructions in 1 Corinthians 11 shed even more light on this matter:

"For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me." 1 Corinthians 11:23-24

When Jesus said, "Take, eat: this is my body," He was not suggesting that they reach out and begin eating His literal body. To even suggest such is ridiculous. He was speaking spiritually about what He was about to accomplish on the cross.

Notice how that verse ends: "...this do in remembrance of me." Observing the Lord's Supper is a remembrance of Christ's work at Calvary, not a reenactment. The same is true of Christ's blood:

"After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me." 1 Corinthians 11:25

Jesus Himself taught the same lesson to his disciples at the Last Supper:

"And he (Jesus) took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me." Luke 22:19

191 posted on 07/18/2003 5:31:53 PM PDT by razorbak
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