Biology textbook hearings prompt science disputes [Texas]

Knight Ridder Newspapers ^ | 08 July 2003 | MATT FRAZIER

[js1138]

Are the quotes fictitious, or is it a question of viewpoint?

A reasonable question. If you cn bear looking back over the last couple hundred posts, you will find copious material written by Darwin, from 1833 on, that shows he was consistently anti-slavery, was proud of England for leading the anti-slavery movement, supported the North in the Civil War, and wrote extensively of his personal observation of cruelty to slaves.

Balanced against that we have marxists and Nazis attempting to gain respectibility by hitching on the coattails of science. If you look back a bit on this thread you will see how Hitler tried to justify the murder of Jews by asserting he was just completing the unfinished business of Christ.

What difference does it make whether the quotes from Nazis and communists are authentic quotes? Does anyone think they were genuinely interested in either science or the teachings of Jesus?

[RightWhale]

At the end of the Ice Age there were several massive, quick water releases as ice dams broke on the ice cap. Three of them were so large as to raise the ocean level 100 feet in a matter of days. It would be no big trick for such a flow to pile up sediment along a valley leading from the glacier, and do it quickly.

[bondserv]

And how long for that mud to turn to stone? I always thought this was a legitimate line of research for creationists, determining by experiment how long it takes for stone to form from sediment and for organic materials to fossilize.

The mounded dirt differs from the jagged rock of the mountains. It appears to be compacted dried dirt/mud. The mountains along that valley range from 5000 to 8500 feet.

The opposite side of the valley has normal Alluvial fan erosion patterns, and doesn't have the mound of dirt pushed against the range. As the valley turns on the low side the mound moves higher up the range as if this was a turning point for the runoff of 5000 foot deep water.

[bondserv]

And how long for that mud to turn to stone? I always thought this was a legitimate line of research for creationists, determining by experiment how long it takes for stone to form from sediment and for organic materials to fossilize.

The mounded dirt differs from the jagged rock of the mountains. It appears to be compacted dried dirt/mud. The mountains along that valley range from 5000 to 8500 feet.

The opposite side of the valley has normal Alluvial fan erosion patterns, and doesn't have the mound of dirt pushed against the range. As the valley turns on the low side the mound moves higher up the range as if this was a turning point for the runoff of 5000 foot deep water.

[f.Christian]

Guess who ...

Free Republic was never intended to be a liberal debating society. It has a purpose and goals. The long term goal is to promote the cause of conservatism and to work for a return to the constitutionally limited republican form of government as established by our founders. If these are not your goals then I don't want you here. I am defending my first amendment right to freedom of association. I only want to associate myself and FR with people who will work with me to achieve my goals.

[f.Christian]

more ...

Argue for constitutionally limited government all you want. That's what we're ALL doing here. But join in with the liberal/marxist/communist Democrats? Never! That's where I draw the line.

[f.Christian]

more ...

Well, until the Knight in Shining Armor * makes the scene, I suggest we try to make do with mere mortals despite all their failings. Only, I hope the mortals elected uphold at least the mimimum Republican standards vs the evil abortionist/homosexual dogma of the Democrats.

mine ...

... * ... science - technology3000 ... designeduniverse.com --- architecture !

[f.Christian]

Liberals - evos are going to be 6 way blindsided --- SMASHED !

Evolution and liberalism is an urban legend popular among the unscientific who don't know a theory from fact !

Real science is coming ... designeduniverse.com --- evolution and liberalism are frauds perpetuated by the ignorant - intellectually destitute -- BANKRUPT !

Just reading the Bible the founding fathers plainly knew this beast would arrive and cover - tyrannize the nation but we would have to deal with it ... so we are -- will !

designeduniverse.com ... the obituary of liberalism - evolution penned by freepers ...

yours truly (( soon )) !

[js1138]

Thanks for the link to the database. I have the Desmond and Moore book, and have the cited pages scanned. I will post them later tonight.

[exmarine]

Hopefully, you're not going to have to rely upon your kids to support you in old age, because I doubt they'll be able to afford it on their level of pay.

I can only point to homeschoolers (most of whom are CHRISTIANS) who outperform (i.e. clobber)your atheist-indoctrined govt. schoolers in every category. I think you should worry about your govt schooled kids.

[js1138]

Their search engine doesn't seem to be ready for text searches yet.

[exmarine]

Science is NOT atheistic, and neither is Evolution.

What can I say to someone who believes this.

[AndrewC]

What difference does it make whether the quotes from Nazis and communists are authentic quotes? Does anyone think they were genuinely interested in either science or the teachings of Jesus?

I don't believe it is either the communists or the nazis that are being called a liar, but I may be wrong.

[exmarine]

Well, some states have standards for curricula or textbooks -- e.g. Texas' "Proclamation," to make a passing reference to the thread topic :) -- and these may have force of law, but the ONLY time I'm aware of evolution EVER being mandated by actual legislation, it was in a law advocated and defended by creationists. The "equal time" law passed in Arkansas, and later overturned by the courts, mandated that "creation science" must be taught if "evolution science" is taught, and vice versa.

It's mandated indirectly by disallowing creationism. Since evolution and creation are the ONLY two viable options for origins of the universe and life, evolution wins by merely EXCLUDING creationism.

[js1138]

Oh boy. I can see the teams lined up now for the Crevo Bowl: Saints vs Devils. But wait, those names are already being used.

I do believe, as Henry ford proved, that ordinary success does not require much book larnin'. Creationists and their children do not need to fear starvation.

I would prefer having school choice. That is one of the things most FReepers can agree on.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

As to homeschooling, been there, did that, have the materials to show for it. K through 3rd grade.

Really disliked the other people doing it at our cottage school. Saw the end result of what that particular program was turning out by the end of high school, and was really unimpressed. oh sure, they could go to bees and do the rote stuff, but they couldn't write their way out of a paper bag, nor were they particularly motivated. From my observations, the boys all wanted to be "net entrepeneurs" (because Lord knows they didn't want to have to wake up in the morning and be answerable to anyone), and the girls aspired to work in a day care prior to their marriages.

They had about as much get up and go as a 1983 Dodge Aries K.

[exmarine]

Evolutionary theory is no more required by the government than teaching about the theory of gravity, relativity theory, quantum theory, astromony, geology, Lewis base theory, group theory, music theory, or the theory of equations.

Wrong. Evolutionary theory (speaks of origins) is protected by the exclusion of the only viable alternative.

[js1138]

I don't believe it is either the communists or the nazis that are being called a liar, but I may be wrong.

Well just in case someone overlooked it, let me be the first to call them liars. ;^)

[f.Christian]

The real reality - fear of evolution ...

they can't compete in the open market of ideas - thinking --- they are losers - frauds - charlatans - grifters from the get go and they know it ... but won't admit it .

Only forced science non thinking works for them ...

RETROGRADES - america too ... anything to have their way - fun with other people's mind - children --- SICKOS !

[js1138]

From my observations, the boys all wanted to be "net entrepeneurs"...

Do any of them by any chance own five websites and post on these threads?