Biology textbook hearings prompt science disputes [Texas]

Knight Ridder Newspapers ^ | 08 July 2003 | MATT FRAZIER

[Onelifetogive]

I think quantum theory should be banished from school curriculums as it gives me pounding headaches.

Who are you, Elroy Jetson? Grade School Quantum Theory???

[Calpernia]

Ah, then I return your bump!

I'm pretty much along the same lines as you.

[Junior]

...it just seems like a cause that would be associated with the left.

Evolution is science, and thus politically neutral. It is the above perception that we conservative evolutionists are trying to combat by partaking in these threads.

[whattajoke]

So far so good placemarker...

[exmarine]

"It has become a battle ground," said Eugenie Scott

It sure is...it's a battle between religions: Atheism vs. theism. There is no doubt that the official U.S. govt. religion (not explicit but implicit) is Atheism, and it is taught in all govt. schools. All one has to do is note that every single teaching in public schools is consistent with atheism, whether the subject be biology, cosmology, physics, ethics - any subject that involves a choice - our govt. chooses atheism. Children are taught that they evolved from a chimp or common ancestor thereof, that they cannot control their sex drives (after all, they are no different from other evolved animals, so GIVE THEM A CONDOM!). This is a violation of the govt's own professed "wall of separation" as atheism has become the State Religion.

[atlaw]

1 p.m. today? The meeting is already over for crying out loud. And these were the "four arguments" presented? sheesh . . .

[Lurking Libertarian]

My point is that "one day" will not arrive until those who control funding and publishing allow people to question evolution without being called kooks, removed from graduate programs and stripped of funding.

Do you have any evidence that that actually happens?

[Calpernia]

Woo hoo!

Dr, we have a Code Green here!

[f.Christian]

Don't you think it's strange that evolutionist are immune to thinking ...

defending their beliefs ---

contemplating alternative theories - ideas - thoughts ?

What are you all afraid of ... water --- meltdown !

House ... palace of cards -- fools !

[Junior]

The guy who would have formulated them was called a kook, removed from his graduate programs and stripped of his funding.

Out of curiosity, who might this have been?

[js1138]

Even if one accepts that species change from one thing to another, it is farmore difficult to explain where the first living thing came from...

Correct. Abiogenesis should not be taught as a fact. It is a researchable problem, but there is no real theory.

This is why all the evolutionists on FR try to explain that the cause of first life is not part of evolution. Darwin explicitly excluded first life from his "Origin."

[CobaltBlue]

This may be a good place to start:

"The Texas textbook proclamation of 2001, which is part of the standard for the state's curriculum, Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills, requires that biology textbooks instruct students so they may "analyze, review and critique scientific explanations, including hypotheses and theories, as to their strengths and weakness using scientific evidence and information."

The state board is empowered to reject books only for factual errors or for not meeting the state's curriculum requirements. If speakers convince the state board that their evidence is scientifically sound, members may see little choice but to demand its presence in schoolbooks.

Proposed books already have been reviewed and approved by Texas Tech University. After a public hearing Wednesday and another Sept. 10, the state board is scheduled to adopt the new textbooks in November."

Seems to me that we need to locate the books and marshall arguments against them.

[Onelifetogive]

But since they can only truly question a theory from a position of knowledge, the point is moot.

Moot???

That is a bizarre statement. Education: Tell someone something exists. Teach them about it. Teach them to go beyond what they are taught!

Your point is that a student shouldn't be told that a theory is not a fact, because he is not yet able to "truly question it from a position of knowledge."

Remedial Science 101: This is a fact. This is a theory. They are not the same!

[f.Christian]

Creationists created the secular non ideological state ...

and evolution has redacted - PERVERTED it ---

to perpetuate their cultic fetishes -- egos !

[js1138]

The institute picks each icon apart.

1. For example it cites problems with a 1953 experiment that produced organic molecules from a mixture of primordial gases.
2. It also claims that fossil evidence of a sudden explosion of life during the Cambrian era (about 500 million years ago) poses a mystery that evolution can't solve.
3. It argues that drawings of vertebrate embryos are regularly misrepresented and
4. that photos of moths on tree trunks in England, a classic example of the workings of natural selection, were staged.

Those are the fatal four?

[RogueIsland]

Today science has moved on to much more precise theorums, Punctuated Equilibrium Evolution and General Relativity.

Next your going to tell me that Ether and Phlogiston are no longer part of cutting edge theory.

[whattajoke]

Do you have any evidence that that actually happens?

Great question. The answer is, of course, "no." Ironically, Behe is probably one of the richest professors in America, and Lehigh isn't a top paying University either. Why? Because Behe didn't bother trying to pass his ideas through conventional peer review at all... Rather, he published his ID ideas in a mass marketed book. Hmmm, makes one wonder why he did this. Did he fear losing his job or, "getting stripped of funding?" Of course not, he knew his stuff wouldn't stand up to scientific critique. (Calls to mind the cold fusion fiasco... a perfect example of why peer review needs to be utilized across the board.)

Case in point, his baby, the mighty flagellum, is no longer an ID icon. Oh sure, they'll find something else that is complicated or difficult to explain, but (ironically), his protestations will actually lead to a greater understanding of a particular mechanism. It's nice to have these creationists point out things that aren't currently adequately explained, allowing scientists to focus on that particular thing. In a weird way, the creationists are advancing scientific understanding!

If they knew any better, it would drive them crazy.

[Dimensio]

Two problems with your argument.

First, not mentioning religion is not the same as discounting religion.
Second, atheism is not a religion. It's the abscence of theism, nothing more and nothing less.

[Onelifetogive]

Correct. Abiogenesis should not be taught as a fact. It is a researchable problem, but there is no real theory.

That strikes me as absurd. (i.e. I know for sure what happened in steps 2 through 27,367. But I don't have the foggiest notion what happened in step 1.) You don't suppose the "truth" about steps 2 - 27,367 could be related in any way to step 1, do ya?

[js1138]

Did you accidentally post to the wrong thread?