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Police unable to locate barricaded man in burned home's rubble {raid on Michigan Militia Chaplin}
AP via MLive.com (Ann Arbor News) ^ | 7/9/2003 | JAMES PRICHARD

Posted on 07/09/2003 5:52:58 AM PDT by Vigilant1

DAYTON TOWNSHIP, Mich. (AP) ? Fire burned the rural home of a man who barricaded himself inside during a deadly police standoff, but authorities were unable to find him when they searched the rubble, Michigan State Police said.

Two hours after the Tuesday afternoon fire, officials found a backpack filled with food and ammunition about three-quarters of a mile away, said Tracy Pardo, a state police communications officer.

The wife of the barricaded man, Scott Allen Woodring, 40, identified the backpack as her husband's, Pardo told the Detroit Free Press for a Wednesday story.

State police said Woodring was believed to be inside when they fired a concussion grenade into the house, which went up in flames a short time later. They were uncertain whether the explosive device, intended to stun Woodring, started the fire or if he set it.

State police scheduled a news conference for Wednesday morning.

Trooper Kevin Marshall, a 33-year-old married father of two and a native of Sterling Heights, was shot Monday afternoon during the standoff. He died later during surgery at a Grand Rapids hospital.

State police were called in after the confrontation erupted Sunday night.

Woodring barricaded himself when officers from the Hesperia Police Department and the Newaygo County Sheriff's Department tried to serve him at his Dayton Township home with a felony arrest warrant. The township is adjacent to Fremont, about 30 miles northeast of Muskegon.

The warrant accuses Woodring of soliciting a minor for sex on July 1 at a gas station, The Grand Rapids Press reported.

Several hours into the standoff, police helped Woodring's wife escape the home, leaving him alone inside.

After Woodring allegedly fired two shots from the house on Monday afternoon, the State Police Emergency Support Team stormed inside and then withdrew. Marshall, an eight-year state police veteran who served on the team, was shot at that time.

When asked whether Marshall could have been hit by a bullet shot by another officer, state police Inspector Barry Getzen said the matter remained under investigation and authorities would examine evidence to "determine what rounds the officer was hit with."

Tom Wayne, former chief of staff and executive officer of the Michigan Militia Corps Wolverines, told The Detroit News that Woodring was active in the group until the mid-1990s. They parted ways over ideological differences.

"He started getting more and more into the Christian Identity movement," said Wayne, who said the militia is largely inactive now.

The movement espouses racist, sexist, anti-Semitic and homophobic beliefs.

Woodring's sister, Debbie DeVisser, of Mount Pleasant, described her brother as a deeply religious man who would help anyone and not ask for anything in return.

Asked if she thought he would shoot at someone, DeVisser said, "Scott would not shoot anybody to harm anybody. The only reason he would have shot (at police) was because he felt threatened and to protect himself."

DeVisser said she wished police had allowed family members to talk to Woodring on Tuesday and speculated that family may have been able to talk him out. Relatives were allowed to converse with him on Monday, the same day police said they last spoke with him during the standoff.

Suzie Burdick, of Everett Township in Newaygo County, said she and Woodring have been close friends for five years. She said they have attended the same church for about a year and often spoke several times a day, mostly about the Bible.

Burdick noted that while Woodring holds strong anti-government views, he was a nonviolent person.

"He's the most loving person I've ever known, just about. He's kind, considerate, loving, caring and loved his wife dearly," Burdick said.

Meanwhile, Gov. Jennifer Granholm has ordered flags at all state buildings to be lowered to half-staff until sundown of the day of Marshall's funeral. Funeral arrangements have not yet been completed, according to her office.

Marshall is the 49th Michigan State Police trooper to die in the line of duty. His death is the department's first in three years.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; US: Michigan
KEYWORDS: banglist; chaplain; christianidentity; michigan; michiganmilitia; militia
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To: Dead Corpse
He went in and gave a statement to the police. Why did they not take him into custody then?

Because they were still investigating, and his statement was part of that investigation?

Wouldn't you be complaining about a rush to judgment if he had been held after going in of his own free will to make a statement?

41 posted on 07/09/2003 6:48:32 AM PDT by hellinahandcart
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To: Dead Corpse
Not necessarily. Even the cops aren't sure they didn't Lubbock one of their own.

It'll all have to be gone through according to the book, of course. But so far, his are the only shots reported to be fired.

Christian Identity Movement. "Nutcase" is a given.

Yeah, see my other post. To me it seems like he isn't a militia member anymore, and that they threw him out before this. Which would be an extremely good thing, all around.

Unlikely that he would all of a sudden start soliciting young girls for sex

Seems sort of strange. But then, it would seem he had been kinda slipping - mentally - for a while. We'll see. If he really had those kinds of leanings, there'll probably be more.

42 posted on 07/09/2003 6:49:11 AM PDT by Cachelot (~ In waters near you ~)
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To: hellinahandcart
V1:
"No, he was accused of this. People are innocent until proven guilty where I come from."

hiahc:
"You're not saying a person can't even be ARRESTED until they're proven guilty in a court of law, are you?"

Spare me the rhetorical tricks and don't put words in my mouth. You wrongly said he solicited a minor for sex when you don't know that's true, and I pointed out it was only an accusation at this point.

As for not coming out when the cops showed up with machineguns, helos and an armored vehicle, perhaps the guy just didn't want to end up like many other people that overzealous cops have killed in raids. As others have pointed out already, he could have been arrested under far more favorable circumstances. It's pretty clear the cops wanted a high-profile LEO three-ring circus for publicity purposes.

43 posted on 07/09/2003 6:49:29 AM PDT by Vigilant1 (The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.)
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To: Dead Corpse
It was also a holiday weekend. Perhaps they couldn't get a warrant any earlier.
44 posted on 07/09/2003 6:51:33 AM PDT by hellinahandcart
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To: Catspaw
It's the OTHER Michigan Militia, the one run by imprisoned Mark Koernke

So this guy wasn't a member of the proper Michigan Militia, but of Koernke's Kreeps? Oh goody. What would be heinous enough for them to declare him persona non grata?

45 posted on 07/09/2003 6:52:39 AM PDT by Cachelot (~ In waters near you ~)
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To: hellinahandcart
Wouldn't you be complaining about a rush to judgment if he had been held after going in of his own free will to make a statement?

If the initial charges were murder, would they have let him just walk out of the police station? Something doesn't smell right here.

46 posted on 07/09/2003 6:53:02 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (For an Evil Super Genius, you aren't too bright are you?)
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To: Vigilant1

Thanks for the tour of ideologue dementialand.

47 posted on 07/09/2003 6:53:09 AM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: hellinahandcart
It was also a holiday weekend. Perhaps they couldn't get a warrant any earlier.

The offense supposedly occured on the 1st. That left three working days to get a warrent. They took six days before showing up at his rural home with a small army by the sounds of it.

(sarcasm)No better way to convince a paranoid personality with anti-authoritarian tendancies, to come out with his hands up, than to show up with a tank and guys in SWAT gear...(/sarcasm)

48 posted on 07/09/2003 6:56:57 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (For an Evil Super Genius, you aren't too bright are you?)
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To: jimt
jt:
" He barricaded himself in the house holding his WIFE hostage."

Really ?!? Where did you hear that he was holding his wife hostage ??? Or are you just taking the police claim that they "helped rescue" his wife from the house as absolutely factual, and then extrapolating that into the idea that she was a hostage of her husband?

49 posted on 07/09/2003 6:57:22 AM PDT by Vigilant1 (The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.)
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To: Vigilant1
You wrongly said he solicited a minor for sex when you don't know that's true, and I pointed out it was only an accusation at this point.

Show me where I said anything other than that he was accused.

A citizen made a complaint, which means the police were duty-bound to investigate. The decision to arrest does not mean the man is guilty, but that the matter has to be decided by the legal process-- NOT between the arrestors and arrestee. The complainant is every bit as entitled to due process as the suspect.

As for not coming out when the cops showed up with machineguns, helos and an armored vehicle, perhaps the guy just didn't want to end up like many other people that overzealous cops have killed in raids.

Well, if he'd only gone with the local police to the station when they showed up with a warrant, the "machine guns, helos, and armored vehicles" would never have arrived.

50 posted on 07/09/2003 7:00:44 AM PDT by hellinahandcart
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To: Cachelot
So this guy wasn't a member of the proper Michigan Militia, but of Koernke's Kreeps?

Yuppers.

Oh goody. What would be heinous enough for them to declare him persona non grata?

Well, given that it is Koernke's Kreeps, I'd say nothing. Um, he is CI--it could be not hating blacks, Jews, etc.

51 posted on 07/09/2003 7:01:17 AM PDT by Catspaw
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To: Vigilant1
Innocent until proven guilty is right. So then why did he refuse the warrant? Why did he barricade himself in his home if he's innocent? According to the cops he did break the law. If the cops are wrong, then Woodring will be proven innocent. That is the way justice works. What's a load of crap is that folks are excusing his actions- including possibly killing a cop, because he's anti-government! If this were joe-schmo off the street, some folks here wouldn't give a flying fig about him.

If he's innocent, then he will be proven so! As far as the friendly fire, this is completely new information. Yesterday, the media reported that Woodring shot him. We'll wait and see what the ballistic tests show. But I'm sure you won't trust those either.

His actions are not those of a rational man, let alone someone who doesn't trust the government.

52 posted on 07/09/2003 7:01:54 AM PDT by rintense (Freedom is contagious, and everyone wants to catch it!)
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To: Vigilant1

Idle speculation and conjecture not based upon reason or facts.

53 posted on 07/09/2003 7:02:11 AM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Dead Corpse
DC:
"Good luck trying to present any other possibilities other than that Woodring was a cop-killing militia nut. Catspaw, CJ, Chancellor Palpatine, and a couple other Flying Mokeys will be along shortly to call you every name in the book and accuse you of condoning paedophilia despite anything resembling a coherent story supported by anything other than supposition."

Yes, I already noticed a few of them circling the thread, gibbering and throwing excrement. ;^) It's not unexpected.
-----------

DC:
"800+ posts on yesterdays thread."

I did a search before posting and came up dry. Could you please post a link here to the previous thread?

54 posted on 07/09/2003 7:02:13 AM PDT by Vigilant1 (The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.)
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To: Dead Corpse
Why does every stupid police action amount to a conspiracy? When Houston cops arrested everyone in that Kmart parking lot last year, was that also a conspiracy? Cops and their superiors are human, and therefore, prone to error, just like the rest of us.
55 posted on 07/09/2003 7:02:54 AM PDT by wysiwyg (What parts of "right of the people" and "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?)
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To: rintense
"He broke the law! He solicited a minor for sex and was presented with a warrant."

No, he was ACCUSED of breaking the law. And the authorities must presume him innocent until proven otherwise.

JBT-think.
56 posted on 07/09/2003 7:04:00 AM PDT by Atlas Sneezed
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To: AD from SpringBay
When I saw the house burning, all I could think of was Waco.
57 posted on 07/09/2003 7:04:42 AM PDT by smiley
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To: Dead Corpse
The charges weren't murder, nobody died until this past Monday night.

But even if he had been accused of murder, you can only hold a person so long before you have to charge him or turn him loose. SAme with lesser crimes. The police don't prove guilt or innocence, only that enough evidence exists to justify arresting & charging. If they took their time investigating in order to do just that, what's the problem?
58 posted on 07/09/2003 7:06:10 AM PDT by hellinahandcart
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To: rintense

It's the same old, tired, anti-Constitution, anti-law, and anti-civilization ideologue song and dance, looking for their poster boy for Claire Wolfism. They have to justify their self-inflicted unhappiness somehow.

59 posted on 07/09/2003 7:07:15 AM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Vigilant1
It's in the Smokey Back Room now...
60 posted on 07/09/2003 7:07:48 AM PDT by hellinahandcart
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