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Police unable to locate barricaded man in burned home's rubble {raid on Michigan Militia Chaplin}
AP via MLive.com (Ann Arbor News) ^ | 7/9/2003 | JAMES PRICHARD

Posted on 07/09/2003 5:52:58 AM PDT by Vigilant1

DAYTON TOWNSHIP, Mich. (AP) ? Fire burned the rural home of a man who barricaded himself inside during a deadly police standoff, but authorities were unable to find him when they searched the rubble, Michigan State Police said.

Two hours after the Tuesday afternoon fire, officials found a backpack filled with food and ammunition about three-quarters of a mile away, said Tracy Pardo, a state police communications officer.

The wife of the barricaded man, Scott Allen Woodring, 40, identified the backpack as her husband's, Pardo told the Detroit Free Press for a Wednesday story.

State police said Woodring was believed to be inside when they fired a concussion grenade into the house, which went up in flames a short time later. They were uncertain whether the explosive device, intended to stun Woodring, started the fire or if he set it.

State police scheduled a news conference for Wednesday morning.

Trooper Kevin Marshall, a 33-year-old married father of two and a native of Sterling Heights, was shot Monday afternoon during the standoff. He died later during surgery at a Grand Rapids hospital.

State police were called in after the confrontation erupted Sunday night.

Woodring barricaded himself when officers from the Hesperia Police Department and the Newaygo County Sheriff's Department tried to serve him at his Dayton Township home with a felony arrest warrant. The township is adjacent to Fremont, about 30 miles northeast of Muskegon.

The warrant accuses Woodring of soliciting a minor for sex on July 1 at a gas station, The Grand Rapids Press reported.

Several hours into the standoff, police helped Woodring's wife escape the home, leaving him alone inside.

After Woodring allegedly fired two shots from the house on Monday afternoon, the State Police Emergency Support Team stormed inside and then withdrew. Marshall, an eight-year state police veteran who served on the team, was shot at that time.

When asked whether Marshall could have been hit by a bullet shot by another officer, state police Inspector Barry Getzen said the matter remained under investigation and authorities would examine evidence to "determine what rounds the officer was hit with."

Tom Wayne, former chief of staff and executive officer of the Michigan Militia Corps Wolverines, told The Detroit News that Woodring was active in the group until the mid-1990s. They parted ways over ideological differences.

"He started getting more and more into the Christian Identity movement," said Wayne, who said the militia is largely inactive now.

The movement espouses racist, sexist, anti-Semitic and homophobic beliefs.

Woodring's sister, Debbie DeVisser, of Mount Pleasant, described her brother as a deeply religious man who would help anyone and not ask for anything in return.

Asked if she thought he would shoot at someone, DeVisser said, "Scott would not shoot anybody to harm anybody. The only reason he would have shot (at police) was because he felt threatened and to protect himself."

DeVisser said she wished police had allowed family members to talk to Woodring on Tuesday and speculated that family may have been able to talk him out. Relatives were allowed to converse with him on Monday, the same day police said they last spoke with him during the standoff.

Suzie Burdick, of Everett Township in Newaygo County, said she and Woodring have been close friends for five years. She said they have attended the same church for about a year and often spoke several times a day, mostly about the Bible.

Burdick noted that while Woodring holds strong anti-government views, he was a nonviolent person.

"He's the most loving person I've ever known, just about. He's kind, considerate, loving, caring and loved his wife dearly," Burdick said.

Meanwhile, Gov. Jennifer Granholm has ordered flags at all state buildings to be lowered to half-staff until sundown of the day of Marshall's funeral. Funeral arrangements have not yet been completed, according to her office.

Marshall is the 49th Michigan State Police trooper to die in the line of duty. His death is the department's first in three years.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; US: Michigan
KEYWORDS: banglist; chaplain; christianidentity; michigan; michiganmilitia; militia
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To: Dead Corpse
You'd hope so. I just hope no one else dies before they can bring him in. Hopefully, he'll negotiate to turn himself in in front of a camera crew. If he's that paranoid, the cameras should help...

Unless he decides that the cameras are concealing silenced weapons.

241 posted on 07/09/2003 2:58:53 PM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.)
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To: Dead Corpse
If he's that paranoid, the cameras should help...

This is a guy who wanted to sent up his own government, including its own judiciary.

I can't see him turning himself in, even with TV cameras, pleas from his family, you name it. It's going take an Eric Rudolph capture, a rookie cop finding him dumpster diving or something equally banal.

I just hope he doesn't endanger or involve anyone else.

242 posted on 07/09/2003 3:06:50 PM PDT by Catspaw
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To: Dead Corpse
I found the post with the information I referenced.

Militia members in other states have run into legal trouble for trying to set up their own judicial and banking systems. Woodring earlier this year ran a newspaper ad promoting the "Committee for a De Jure Township."

The ad said that the purpose of the meeting was to talk about organizing the township for "judicial and other purposes."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/942200/posts?page=2#2

243 posted on 07/09/2003 3:17:34 PM PDT by Catspaw
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To: All
Sunday 20:00 July 6, 2003 - Officers from the Hesperia Police Department and the Newaygo County Sheriff's Department tried to serve him at his Dayton Township home with a felony arrest warrant. The warrant accuses Woodring of soliciting a minor for sex on July 1 at a gas station

Monday 16:00 July 7, 2003 After Woodring allegedly fired two shots from the house on Monday afternoon, the State Police Emergency Support Team stormed inside and then withdrew. Marshall, an eight-year state police veteran who served on the team, was shot at that time.

Update: Michigan State Police feel that Woodring had most likely left the house in Fremont prior to the attempted forced entry. Police stated that Woodring may have left as early as Monday afternoon. - This means that he may not have shot the Officer nor fired the two rounds that is claimed. (source: http://www.wzzm.com/news/newsdefaultpopoff.asp?cmd=view&articleid=7643 )

Tuesday 14:18 July 8, 2003 SRT fires flashbangs into house and it burns down.

Tuesday 16:18 July 8, 2003 Backpack found about 1 mile from home, supposedly belongs to Scott.

244 posted on 07/09/2003 3:29:26 PM PDT by SCR1 (Timeline)
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To: SCR1
I watched the press conference on wood-tv. The State Police pio said the last time they talked to him was around 2:30 p.m. on Monday (I didn't take notes and as far as I know there's no transcript available, so I am relying on memory). The press conference is (or was) posted on the front page of the TV station's webpage. You'll need real player.

http://www.woodtv.com
245 posted on 07/09/2003 3:53:56 PM PDT by Catspaw
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To: jimt
The cops were doing their job, and doing it correctly. Woodering was wrong.

I agree, right up until the point they donned the military gear and forced the issue. Unless he was firing from the house, which is in this article but wasn't in yesterday's. Then again in this article they're saying it's possible (which means probable) that he was shot by his buddy.

They certainly weren't doing their job when they let the a$$hole get away.

My opinion, we should all shut the hell up (including myself) until we know the facts, which will probably never happen.

246 posted on 07/09/2003 3:56:07 PM PDT by AAABEST
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To: Catspaw
I found another article that stated the DYnamic entry was at 3:30pm Monday. I don't think the 2:30 time could be accurate, as I don't see how he could slip out of the house one hour before a raid. I'm sure all eyes were on every part of that house.

I wonder if he had a cell phone or cordless phone where he could go mobil while still having communication?!?
247 posted on 07/09/2003 4:09:28 PM PDT by SCR1 (Timeline)
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To: SCR1
I'll have to listen to the morning press conference again to listen for the time (even though--insert whine here--woodtv doesn't have fast forward). The pio said that was the last time they had communication with him (at least according to my memory) and it was prior to the entry on Monday.

The link you provided to the sister's press statement (no questions) was interesting. She said that the family had been communicating with Woodring via cell phone and ham and that the police changed the cell phone number and accidently knocked down the ham radio tower. Later in the press conference, the sister (the "official family spokesman") asked Woodring to surrender peacefully at least twice and said the family would support him.

248 posted on 07/09/2003 4:17:58 PM PDT by Catspaw
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To: SCR1
Okay, I listened to most of the morning press conference. This is what the state police pio said:

In his statement he said, "he [Woodring} left the residence prior to the entry on Tuesday."

In response to a question he said that Woodring was "last spoken to prior to 2:30 on Monday."

The time gap seems to be between 2:30 p.m. on Monday and approximately 4 p.m. on Tuesday.

The question of whether Woodring was in the house during the entry on Monday wasn't asked--at least for as long as I listened to the press conference. The pio also didn't indicate if it was the police or a family member who had spoken to him on Monday.

249 posted on 07/09/2003 4:30:42 PM PDT by Catspaw
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To: Catspaw
I still don't see how he could leave between 2:30 and 3:30 pm without being seen. I am begining towonder if he was there at all.
250 posted on 07/09/2003 4:45:00 PM PDT by SCR1 (Timeline)
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To: HurkinMcGurkin
I didn't missed them, I ignored them.
251 posted on 07/09/2003 4:52:27 PM PDT by SCR1 (Timeline)
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To: HurkinMcGurkin
You must have missed the silly posts speculating about a "trap gun" that fired multiple shots in multiple directsions hitting two different officers.

I was under the impression that only one officer was hit, fatally so.

252 posted on 07/09/2003 4:53:48 PM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.)
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To: All
"Police had been engaging in so-called "scare tactics" such as using armored personnel carriers to circle the house, as well as detonation devices to keep their suspect on edge. Helicopters hovered day and night for surveillance and intimidation. Police never ruled out the use of force."

Haven't read much debate about the similarities between the police tactics here and at other botched raids, what do you all think?
253 posted on 07/09/2003 4:54:31 PM PDT by xring
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To: xring
How about the similarity of tactics at the beginning to other attempts at executing felony arrest warrants where the perp just surrendered instead of barricading himself and holding his wife hostage?
254 posted on 07/09/2003 4:55:38 PM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.)
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To: SCR1
If you watched his sister's statement, she said she and other family members (including his wife, who was inside the house with him) talked to him by cell phone and ham during the period from the time the wife left the house until the the police changed the phone number and knocked down the ham tower--that'd be prior to 2:30 p.m. or 3:30 p.m. on Monday.

If you don't think he was in there at all, that would presume that the sister, his wife and other family members lied to the police. If they did so, that'd mean a major league obstruction of justice charge (or charges) for them.

The only theory I'd posit is that he was able to get away during the chaos of the entry on Monday or shortly after that, but there's no definitive time that anyone can establish as to when he left the house.

255 posted on 07/09/2003 5:02:59 PM PDT by Catspaw
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To: Poohbah
The guy fears his government, he's not going to simply hand himself over to the police. His wife was freed earlier, he was one misguided man in a house. Did the police REALLY NEED armored personnel carriers, helicopters, detonation devices, scare tactics and intimidation to get this guy?

Somewhat overkill, don't you think?
256 posted on 07/09/2003 5:08:07 PM PDT by xring
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To: xring
The guy fears his government, he's not going to simply hand himself over to the police. His wife was freed earlier, he was one misguided man in a house. Did the police REALLY NEED armored personnel carriers, helicopters, detonation devices, scare tactics and intimidation to get this guy?

How do you propose handling situations like this?

He's an accused sexual predator who also shoots at cops.

Would you invite him over for cookies and tea with your teenage daughter?

257 posted on 07/09/2003 5:10:01 PM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.)
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To: Poohbah
My recommendation would be to keep him contained and wait him out. Even if it took a month, the Trooper would be alive and the house would still be standing.
258 posted on 07/09/2003 5:16:54 PM PDT by xring
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To: xring
My recommendation would be to keep him contained and wait him out. Even if it took a month, the Trooper would be alive and the house would still be standing.

OK, no problem. You can pay for the police overtime and for housing the miscreant's neighbors, who are being deprived of their right to the quiet enjoyment of their property by this guy, all out of your own pocket.

259 posted on 07/09/2003 5:26:59 PM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.)
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To: Poohbah
Can't put a price on the Troopers life.
260 posted on 07/09/2003 5:29:04 PM PDT by xring
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