[TigersEye]

*Thanks* for posting this article on Vostok. First of all, the article concedes a correlation between CO2 and atmosphere warming -- it just contends that CO2 lags and thus is not the driver.

... you've posted an article conceding there is 450,000 years of correlated data, you don't even dispute the correlation, and your concern is about the *strength* of CO2-induced warming?

The correlation indicates (but doesn't prove) that colder temperatures cause CO2 levels to drop and warmer temperatures cause CO2 levels to rise. That makes temperature the driver. (if you accept that a correlation is proof of causation)

But the opposite conclusion, that CO2 levels drive temperature changes, is impossible. Cause always precedes effect.

A reasonable theory can easily be constructed to account for temp. changes causing CO2 level changes. The planet cools and plant/animal activity decreases leading to lower CO2 levels. The planet warms stimulating plant/animal activity and CO2 levels rise. The long lag between temp. change and CO2 level change reflects the slow and measured response of dense concentrations of biomass (jungles/forests) to temperature changes. The CO2 levels are driven by biomass levels which are driven by climatic changes.
First cause, then effect.

[FreeTheHostages]

oh, I'm sorry, I see your point

OK, that's not terribly helpful to my position then

but those previous cycles don't involve 100 percent increases in CO2 in parts per million in an Antartica ice core? they don't involve the *kinds* of increases we see now

I am waiting for a response from lepton, who has told me there's science that (1) recognizes that there's been 1 degree heating but (2) notes that most of it occurred in the *first* half of the century, where as the increases in CO2 in Vostok are generally happen in the *second* half of the last century. that's interesting cause/effect data

[gleeaikin]

If CO@ levels are following temperature changes, then that tends to strengthen the possibility that bolide strikes and supervolcanoes may be causing some of this.