Space shuttle test reveals 'smoking gun' in disaster

Washington Post via Austin American Statesman ^ | 7-8-03 | Kathy Sawyer

[from occupied ga]

If your attitude (that publicly funded libraries and parks are "robbery" by the goverment) is held by the majority here, then perhaps I'm on the wrong website.

I'm trying to get a handle on your thought processes. First, it appears that you feel I shouldn't express a viewpoint that isn't held by the majority. Second you imply that the the majority determines what is right and what is wrong. Well I disagree with both points. I don't give a rat's backside what the majority thinks, and second that are moral absolutes, and what is right and wrong is not determined by whatever the majority of idiots thinks. After all the majority wanted Klinton for president for 8 years.

"Thou shalt not steal" is , at least to me, one of the moral absolutes. It doesn't matter if the stealing if being done by an unorganized petty thief or the worst gang of all, the government, it's still stealing, and I would like to see the constitutional authority that grants the government the power to rob me to make "bike paths" Like you I will probably never use them. Unlike you, I don't see that taking the money that I earned to squander on parks, or bike paths that I won't use has any moral justification. Unlike you, I don't have the perverted liberal definition of "selfishness." According to you "selfish" is wanting to keep the money I worked for, and "unselfish" is a gang of self appointed thieves taiking my earnings at gunpoint and squandering them on something they want.

If you want to worship government go ahead, but that sort of attitude is not conservatism, it's statism or fascism or marxism depending on the details.

Just out of curiosity; how much do you voluntarily contribute to the government above and beyond your taxes? After all if you think government spending is such a good thing then you should give them even more of your money than they demand. I personally only yield what I am forced to.

there are many legitimate areas where the only entity able to provide a community service is the community government.

You are completey wrong on this you are indeed very much "confused" but you should try to get over it, and I'll even help. The only legitimate areas for government action are those defined by the constitution. The constitution is the basic contract between the citizens and the government and anything that the government does beyond this is both unconstitutional and immoral. Law is just a tool of the government. Generally the law is whatever the government wants it to be and is in any case meaningless when you consider that there are over 140,000 pages in the federal register today. No on can possibly know all of that and it's sole purpose is to let the government screw anyone the bureaucrats target (like poor Martha Stewart who is being prosecuted so that the government attorney can make a name for himself like that a$$hole Gulliani) rather than to protect the property and freedom of the citizens.

[from occupied ga]

Government has to be granted some powers, or anarchy would reign.

Yes and these powers and their limitations are precisely enumerated in the constitution. I don't see libraries, bike paths, or parks anywhere in that document.

[1Old Pro]

I don't know much about this. But if they aren't going to burn fuel on re-entry wouldn't that be enough to get them to the station? And the only reason I suggested the station is because they usually have a escape Soyuz attached and/or they could probably hang out longer at the station than in the shuttle as they wait for another launch.

[Mamzelle]

re: It's time to scrap this dinosaur program which has no real purpose except a jobs program for NASA)))

It's also a *rides* program for wannabe passengers--and vicarious passengers. The future is in robotics, at least for our lifetime. Check out the rover for some real excitement--

[ConfusedAndLovingIt]

Yes and these powers and their limitations are precisely enumerated in the constitution. I don't see libraries, bike paths, or parks anywhere in that document.

I don't believe the constitution applies to what your community government decides to fund. If all your libraries and parks were paid for by the Federal goverment, then I think you'd have a point.

[ConfusedAndLovingIt]

The constitution applies to the Federal government. States and cities have their own constitutions, charters, etc.. Do you know what your state constitution even says? Do you know what rules apply to your city government?

[krb]

It doesn't take a lot of gas to re-enter anyway. You burn a few hundred pounds of hydrazine out of little nozzles all over the orbiter to orient it correctly, then you glide in, using the stored potential energy (remember mass x height x gravity?) to surf back home. I think the use of the main engines is minimal in that maneuver.

It does take a boatload of liquid O2 and H2 to burn the main engines to be able to actually get to a higher orbit, and it also takes a lot of the main engines to cause your circular orbit to be in a different circle around the planet, even at the same height.

[from occupied ga]

The constitution applies to the Federal government. States and cities have their own constitutions, charters, etc.. Do you know what your state constitution even says?

Yes - nothing about parks and bike paths in it.

Do you know what rules apply to your city government?

Fortunately I don't live in a city, so only the county charter applies, and I must confess I haven't read it nor can I even find a copy of it. My point remains that unlimited government is just robbery on a grand scale, and that regardless of any constitutional constraints, governments at all levels have metastasized into all intrusive organizations that pursue their own aims at the expense of the taxpayers. If you want bike paths and parks you get together with other people who want them and you pay for them. If you force me to pay for your (recreation, healthcare, fill in the blank) then what you are practicing is a combination of robbery and receiving stolen goods.

[from occupied ga]

If all your libraries and parks were paid for by the Federal goverment, then I think you'd have a point.

You are either missing my point or ignoring it and that is it isn't the government's business (government at any level) to steal from one group and pander to the other with the stolen goods. And, if you think that federal tax dollars aren't used by local governments to pay for some of the stupid stuff that they do, you aren't paying attention to the world around you.

[ConfusedAndLovingIt]

You are either missing my point or ignoring it and that is it isn't the government's business (government at any level) to steal from one group and pander to the other with the stolen goods.

I'm not missing your point. I just don't agree with it. I believe local governments should collect taxes and pay for things that benefit the community. The local government should be the servant of the community by doing things for the community collectively that the community would have a difficult or impossible time doing as individuals. I am fully aware that in the real world, these governmental powers are often abused, but that doesn't mean that all government is evil. Governments are necessary and have their rightful place.

The founding fathers limited the power of the Federal government in the constitution because they didn't want the Federal government doing things that were rightfully taken care of by local governments.

And, if you think that federal tax dollars aren't used by local governments to pay for some of the stupid stuff that they do, you aren't paying attention to the world around you.

I agree with you that federal tax dollars should not be used for these purposes.